# The Biden Administration - the first 1,500 days \[NOT an Afghanistan discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057 "2020-11-08T15:09:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/903 "2021-07-02T07:25:11Z")
Yeah, that’s not remotely what that person is saying. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/904 "2021-07-02T13:57:50Z")
Could get _very_ ugly in Afghanistan with the U.S. military withdrawal, but after almost 20 years, too many American lives lost and billions of dollars spent there, I think the President probably made the right call. > **[A 'gut decision': Inside Biden's defense of Afghanistan withdrawal amid...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/politics/afghanistan-biden-withdrawal-security/index.html)** > > Sitting alongside Afghanistan's President in the Oval Office last week, President Joe Biden didn't try to sugarcoat the situation: Things were not looking great for his guest's country. > **[Biden administration intends to relocate thousands of Afghans who helped US...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/politics/afghanistan-translators-relocate/index.html)** > > President Joe Biden vowed that the thousands of Afghan nationals who have worked alongside US diplomats and troops "are not going to be left behind" as his administration looks to relocate them in order to protect their safety while they wait for... ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/905 "2021-07-02T14:26:30Z")
I’ll put money on the Taliban taking Kabul in the next six months. They’re already seizing more and more territory from Afghan securlty forces. There won’t even be enough pushback for a civl war. Sure, civil wars aren’t the grooviest of things, but it illuminates the ease with which the Taliban will take over. ---
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/906 "2021-07-02T14:37:21Z")
Yeah, the Afghanistan War has long since stopped being about winning than about not losing. It’s eerily similar to Vietnam in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/907 "2021-07-02T14:47:04Z")
If the Taliban recaptures Afghanistan, but the U.S. successfully inflicted tens of thousands of casualties on them in the past twenty years, maybe it’s an acceptable trade-off. One can only hope they won’t use it to host another terrorist group though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/908 "2021-07-02T15:10:31Z")
I was actually wondering about what we accomplished in twenty years there, what with thousands of Americans dead or disabled, thousands of Afghans dead or disabled and hundreds of billions (trillions?) spent. To put it in camping terms, are we leaving it a better place than it started? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/909 "2021-07-02T15:13:48Z")
America is just the latest of a line of empires for whom Afghanistan is a graveyard. We never had a hope of “leaving it a better place” than when we arrived. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/910 "2021-07-02T15:18:00Z")
I have to admit, the incompetence and corruption of the Afghan government just pisses me off. After all this time and blood and treasure we’ve spent to try to help them, and how awful Taliban rule was the first time, and knowing full well how many of them will be up against the wall if the Taliban wins _again_, and they still can’t effectively counter the mullahs? Grrrrr. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/911 "2021-07-04T11:58:13Z")
Yes, it is the Afghans fault. /s ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/912 "2021-07-04T18:08:08Z")
Did I say it was all “the Afghans” [sic] fault? No. But if it falls once more to the Taliban, the Afghan _government’s_ incompetence and corruption will almost certainly be a factor. It is their country, to win or lose, to keep or not. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/913 "2021-07-05T13:40:37Z")
The [Washington Post has a pretty in depth article up this morning](https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/07/04/student-tracy-stone-manning-sent-letter-behalf-eco-saboteurs-its-now-complicating-her-chance-lead-bureau-land-management/) on Tracy Stone-Manning’s nomination to lead the Bureau of Land Management. As discussed upthread, the major sticking point with her nomination is that as a student she was involved with an environmental group, some members of which “spiked” trees that were to be harvested. According to those involved she was not aware of the spiking before it happened, however she did type and mail a letter afterwards to officials to warn them that the trees had been spiked. She later testified against the spikers in court. I’m a bit torn on this one. All seem to agree that Stone-Manning had no personal involvement in or awareness of the spiking, and was a voice for moderation within environmental groups. And when she found out, she did ensure that officials were warned of the spiking so that no loggers were injured. Still, as Sen Barrasso says, she didn’t cooperate with investigators until she got caught. After the spiking, she was aware that specific individuals within the movement were engaged in potentially deadly activities. She found out about this spiking, but what about the next one? Getting back to the present, I think it’s likely her nomination is toast. The only Republicans who might have backed her (Collins and Murkowski) come from states with large logging sectors. Murkowski’s already said she’s opposed. So you need every Democrat on board, and Joe Manchin seems to take pride in antagonizing environmentalists (this is a man who literally shot a copy of the cap-and-trade bill for a campaign ad). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/914 "2021-07-05T16:06:09Z")
I suspect you’re right. Here’s an interesting and very detailed post-election analysis of Biden’s (and Trump’s) typical voters, and how the election was different in 2016, 2018 and 2020: > **[Behind Biden’s 2020 Victory](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/)** > > A new analysis of 2020 validated voters examines change and continuity in the electorate, both of which contributed to Joe Biden’s victory. It looks at how new voters and voters who turned out in either 2016, 2018 or both voted in the 2020... ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/915 "2021-07-05T16:58:02Z")
The war for Afghanistan’s future was probably lost when the U.S. decided to invade Iraq and divert resources that could have been spent on building Afghanistan. Even so, a cursory review of history suggests that the odds on a successful nation-building experiment in Afghanistan would have been long had we decided to give that effort our full, undivided attention. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/916 "2021-07-05T18:55:35Z")
Interesting numbers in that piece. Among others, I underestimated the Gen X support for Biden and overestimated the support for him from Silents. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/917 "2021-07-05T20:31:36Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The war for Afghanistan’s future was probably lost when the U.S. decided to invade Iraq and divert resources that could have been spent on building Afghanistan. There was no hope of ‘building’ Afghanistan. It’s less a country than it is a giant region of competing warlords and lawlessness. You can’t just ‘build’ a country out of that. The U.S. was right to invade Afghanistan, but they should have just kicked the asses of the Taliban and said, ‘Right. Now that you know what we can and will do, shape up or we’ll come back and do it again.’ Nation building was never an option, as there is no nation there to build. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/918 "2021-07-06T01:51:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …The U.S. was right to invade Afghanistan, but they should have just kicked the asses of the Taliban and said, ‘Right. Now that you know what we can and will do, shape up or we’ll come back and do it again.’ … “And write it a hundred times by daybreak, or I’ll cut your balls off.” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/919 "2021-07-06T02:09:06Z")
Exactly. But we didn’t have to make them conjugate a verb first. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/920 "2021-07-09T13:28:21Z")
It’s all about the Benjamins, baby: > **[Biden has canceled $1.5 billion in student debt for victims of for-profit...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/09/politics/biden-student-loan-debt-cancellation/index.html)** > > The Department of Education has canceled a total of $1.5 billion in student loan debt for nearly 92,000 students, who were victims of for-profit college fraud, since President Joe Biden took office. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/921 "2021-07-09T16:42:18Z")
“For-profit” institutions are not the only problem: > Recent film program graduates of Columbia University who took out federal student loans had a median debt of $181,000. > > Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-the-elite-masters-degrees-that-dont-pay-off-11625752773](https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-the-elite-masters-degrees-that-dont-pay-off-11625752773) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057/922 "2021-07-09T22:22:05Z")
Net Neutrality may be restored. [White House Executive Order Poised to Restore Net Neutrality](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/g5gwzx/white-house-executive-order-poised-to-restore-net-neutrality?__twitter_impression=true) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biden-administration-the-first-1-500-days-not-an-afghanistan-discussion/925057.md?page=47)