# The Big-Bang, Creationism for nerds? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2000, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047 "2000-11-21T00:16:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/41 "2000-11-28T22:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*What about those who are not “literal Creationists”? We who believe in the Divine’s role in the development of the Universe, but not as the Creationists depict it, seem to be left out in this argument. Science is only explaining the process of evolution and the making of the galaxies. They have not proven that there was absolutely no Divine guidance as a factor in these developments. More likely, science may have proven the contrary. \*\* As **Ptahlis** and **David B** have hinted, science has no proof about the existence of God. That is a question outside the purview of science. Perhaps you meant that many scientists, when studying the universe, come to the personal belief that there is a god behind it all. That’s fine, but it’s not a scientific conclusion. As far as feeling left out, don’t. What you talk about is accepted by the Roman Catholic Church among others. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/42 "2000-11-29T03:46:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by edwino \* > > I read the OP as referring to what happened to set Big Bang in motion. I was taught in high school and college that all natural laws were set at Big Bang or shortly after when the electroweak force and the strong force separated, followed by the electromagnetic and weak forces. Or something like that. > > So, if there were no “laws of the Universe” before Big Bang, science cannot address what happened before, as there is no way to make hypotheses when there is no system in place. To put **aynrandlover** ’s response to you in a different way, it is not that the natural laws did not exist before those forces separated…It is just that we do not yet understand what those natural laws are! (As for before the Big Bang, I think there is a bigger question mark on that one…Or it may not even make sense to talk about there being a “before” the Big Bang.) An analogy is with the theory of special relativity: Before Einstein, our understanding of the motion of objects was limited to speeds much smaller than the speed of light. Einstein came along and extended the laws so that they applied even to objects going at velocities close to the speed of light. But, those laws existed in the universe before Einstein discovered them…We just didn’t know them yet. It was a limitation in our knowledge that prevented us from understanding what happens to objects as they approach the speed of light. (And conversely, Newton’s laws didn’t cease to work to an excellent approximation in the non-relativistic realm where we were applying them, which of course is why one is still taught Newton’s laws even though we know them to be only approximate.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Crimson\_Hipster\_Dufuz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Crimson\_Hipster\_Dufuz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Crimson_Hipster_Dufuz)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/43 "2000-11-29T10:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Take your index finger and your thumb of une hand and make a circle. Next take the thumb of you other hand and stick it up thorugh the circle. Now, as fast as you can, pull your thumb out of the circle and try to grab your thumb sticking out of the circle. No matter how fast you try your thumb is always gone by the time your hand crosses the top of the circle by definition of the experiment. No, I just wound up with all of my fingers of one hand wrapped around the thumb of the other. Mu. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/44 "2000-11-30T17:23:21Z")
Scylla, I just wanted to applaud your post. That is all. 😉 Regards, B. Williams ---
**Author:** ![Caesar0211](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caesar0211](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caesar0211)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/45 "2000-12-01T01:35:41Z")
hey, I’m a strong Christian (young earth follower. I got facts, but I’m not going to debate that now, so dont bother, I wont respond.so that means a litteral 7 day creation.) so here is how I tried to percieve this God always exsisting deal. as of now, we have 4 dimensions at our reach. 1-height or 2-length 3-depth 4-space/time all are visible to us. now I’m not saying Hades and Heaven are on different dimensions, cause nobody earthly knows that, but just assume this. find a blind person who has beed blind their whole life. now try to describe them the color green. heh, you wont be able to do it. thats because no matter how hard they try to think of color, they cant do it. better yet, immagine your in the first dimention (length or height) and thats all you see. now you have a bug for instance in the 3rd dimenion on the lip of a glass. now bingo, take that into the 1st dimension with you. have it walk forward…and it would be an infinite walk, bacause it doesnt know that its on a glass-It would think its just on an endless cord. so it is with God. we might just not know how it works and his infinate life. maybe Heaven isnt visible to the space/time dimension like we can see, and time doesnt exsist? fact is, its a completely differnt place, where time is deffinatly diffent. our minds are clouded with the physical. so I say, dont wonder about that, just worry about getting to Heaven,and then finding out! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/46 "2000-12-01T02:05:18Z")
Looks a lot like the old “You-can’t-prove-it’s-not-true-so-therefore-it-must-be” fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/47 "2000-12-01T02:15:45Z")
Caesar0211 wrote: > [@](#): > > hey, I’m a strong Christian (young earth follower. I got facts, but I’m not going to debate that now, so dont bother, I wont respond.so that means a litteral 7 day creation.) Do you also believe in a rectangular Earth? Revelation 7:1 says: “After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.” If you believe the 7-day creation in Genesis 1 is NOT a metaphor, then please explain why you believe that the “four corners of the Earth” in Rev 7:1 IS a metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![Caesar0211](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caesar0211](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caesar0211)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/48 "2000-12-01T02:17:55Z")
the simple fact remains, no matter how hard you try, we’ll never be able to figure it out until our souls go to that specific place. so, yea, I dont know, but neither do you, or anyone else on this earth (unless an angel) say what you must, but this is life. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/49 "2000-12-01T02:19:44Z")
tracer: If the earth isn’t a rectangle how come we have North, South, East, and West? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/50 "2000-12-01T02:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Caesar0211 \* > \*\*the simple fact remains, no matter how hard you try, we’ll never be able to figure it out until our souls go to that specific place. so, yea, I dont know, but neither do you, or anyone else on this earth (unless an angel) say what you must, but this is life. \*\* This is what you base your faith on? Every time I bend over I can’t prove that monkeys aren’t going to fly out of my ass either. It doesn’t mean that I have any reason to expect them to. If this is the foundation of your religious beleifs than it seems pretty clear you’ve built your castle on sand. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/51 "2000-12-01T02:46:21Z")
Caesar0211: If your knowledge of modern science is equal to your knowledge of English grammer, syntax and spelling, do us all a favor. Go post on MPSIMS or somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/52 "2000-12-01T03:29:27Z")
I want him here, explaining his facts about the young earth theory. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/53 "2000-12-01T12:32:49Z")
Caesar0211 said: > [@](#): > > I’m a strong Christian (young earth follower. I got facts, but I’m not going to debate that now Oh, yeah. We believe you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/54 "2000-12-01T12:36:18Z")
Peyote Coyote said: > [@](#): > > If your knowledge of modern science is equal to your knowledge of English _grammer_, syntax and spelling… (Emphasis mine.) Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. While I certainly like to pound egotistical creationists into the dust, criticizing one in this manner doesn’t help fight ignorance – especially when the person doing the criticizing can’t spell “grammar.” ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2000, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047/55 "2000-12-01T14:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Caesar0211 \* > \*\*the simple fact remains, no matter how hard you try, we’ll never be able to figure it out until our souls go to that specific place. \*\* Not sure what “it” you’re referring to, but it’s also a simple fact that there are many things we CAN figure out using the Scientific Method. One of the things that we can figure out is that the Earth and universe are billions of years old. The evidence is clear and comes from several independent lines of investigation (astronomy, geology, biology, etc.). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-creationism-for-nerds/42047.md?page=2)