# The Big Bang is not proven fact; it is opinion. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078 "2006-02-05T05:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/1 "2006-02-05T05:20:21Z")
“On Friday evening, repeated queries were made to the White House about how a young presidential appointee with no science background came to be supervising Web presentations on cosmology and interview requests to senior NASA scientists.” That quote should say it all, but here’s more tomtoolery at NASA [http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2006/02/george\_deutsch.html](http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2006/02/george_deutsch.html) > [@](#): > > The Big Bang is not proven fact; it is opinion. It is not NASA’s place, nor should it be to make a declaration such as this about the existence of the universe that discounts intelligent design by a creator. > > It continued: “This is more than a science issue, it is a religious issue. And I would hate to think that young people would only be getting one-half of this debate from NASA. That would mean we had failed to properly educate the very people who rely on us for factual information the most.” This guy, a 24 year old college graduate, thinks that the Big Bang is “just an opinion,” and spends his time bossing around Phds in astrophysics. Worse, he seems to have missed the memo where creationists decided that the Big Bang was exactly what Christianity had always predicted (after, of course, calling it heresy for awhile first): he seems to think that stating that the Big Bang is scientific fact is some sort of disproof of Jesus. I don’t have any problem with calling it Big Bang Theory. But anyone too poorly educated in science to know that “theory” doesn’t mean “opinion” or that it is inconsistent with calling something a fact should not be placed in charge of science PR at NASA, especially if the only reason they even have the job is that they greased some metaphorical dicks at the Bush/Cheney campaign as an intern. Every administration engages in cronyism. But most at least try to get people at least marginaly in the right field and with at least SOME relevant qualifications. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/2 "2006-02-05T05:29:24Z")
My outrage meter is broken… I don’t know what else to expect from this administration. Yet again they’re anti-science, and I’m not surprised in the least. Ah well. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/3 "2006-02-05T05:35:59Z")
I hear were planing to repeal the law of gravity next. I can’t wait to be able to fly 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/4 "2006-02-05T05:36:44Z")
I don’t really know why you are so outraged. After all, didn’t Quayle (the W before there even was a W), during his vicepresidency in his role as NASA “boss” say something about those interesting canals they’d detected on Mars? And even that the presence of water might indicate life on Mars? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/5 "2006-02-05T05:41:19Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > I don’t really know why you are so outraged. After all, didn’t Quayle (the W before there even was a W), during his vicepresidency in his role as NASA “boss” say something about those interesting canals they’d detected on Mars? And even that the presence of water might indicate life on Mars? But Quayle was the VP, not an appointee to NASA. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/6 "2006-02-05T05:49:38Z")
It is actually a common thing, I’m finding. It’s my latest “what the hell?!”, if you will. For instance, a new semester just started up, and I have the pleasure of taking Earth Science, a waste of time required credit that involves an endless, soul sucking flow of busy work. On the first day of lecture, the professora began by introducing the different layers of science. She showed, demonstrated, and elaborated quite well the scientific process of observation, hypothesis, theory - and law. I was pleased, until she got to “law.” She did make it known that “law” is not definitive, and can be disproven at any time. She also mentioned that it is a once-theory backed by all available evidence. I was only displeased by the fact that she called it a law, instead of a scientific theory. So I, I said nothing. Then, she began to talk about the Big Bang, and my fears were positively identified, asked for papers, drug out of the bar, and visited Room 101. “See, I will tell you about the Big Bang, but this is not to teach you against your beliefs. The Big Bang is ONLY a theory, and is not law. You don’t have to believe it, because it is not fact, but I have to teach it anyway.” Lady, no, that is absolutely contrary to teaching. Although no one was really paying attention, I refuse to let that go unanswered, so I spoke up. “Law is just a fancy way of saying of scientific theory, right? A theory that makes predictions, is backed by all available evidence, etc - right?” “Yea, that is all a law is.” “Well, the Big Bang is a scientific theory, because of all of the evidence, right?” “Well, yeah.” “Well?” “It’s just a theory, not a law.” I’ve also posted recently on a close friend of mine who doesn’t believe in the Big Bang. I explained why night is black, TV snow, different anthropic principles, exlusiveness v. inclusiveness, planetary formation, etc - and she still can’t believe “a planet formed from ONE SPECK OF DUST!!” People don’t fear science or the scientific process, they just only want to use it when it’s convient. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/7 "2006-02-05T06:00:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But Quayle was the VP, not an appointee to NASA. True. However, as part of his duties he had to manage NASA, as far as I know. My point being: if the appointer doesn’t know the first thing about the subject of the institution he’s supposed to manage, his appointees probably won’t know much about it either. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/8 "2006-02-05T06:17:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I hear were planing to repeal the law of gravity next. > > I can’t wait to be able to fly 😃 The trick is to throw yourself at the ground and miss. 😃 See, it’s things like this that make me say I should be running NASA. Some pointy headed pipsqueak saying something like this around me is going to get smacked with a clue by four. Repeatedly. At my trial, I’ll plead not guilty by reason of temporary sanity. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/9 "2006-02-05T06:25:52Z")
Why, that couldn’t be _[this](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_01/008102.php)_ George Deutsch, could it? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/10 "2006-02-05T06:27:07Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > The trick is to throw yourself at the ground and miss. 😃 > > See, it’s things like this that make me say I should be running NASA. Some pointy headed pipsqueak saying something like this around me is going to get smacked with a clue by four. Repeatedly. At my trial, I’ll plead not guilty by reason of temporary sanity. If I was on the jury, I would fight for a not-guilty verdict. BTW: Where can I pick up a Clue by Four? Sounds like a damn handy item to have around. Jim ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/11 "2006-02-05T06:36:21Z")
I wonder if W is aware of Mr. Deutsch’s views on [marijuana](http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:MLK_8y7EojsJ:www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread15187.shtml+%22george+deutsch%22+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=22&ie=UTF-8) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/12 "2006-02-05T06:58:51Z")
Damn! Just when you think the guy’s a total shill for the administration, his past editorials in the Texas A&M paper show him to be a free thinker…Uh Oh. Better watch out, George. "In the November 5th Battalion George Deutsch posted: “You know you want to look… – Utah porn czar an unnecessary waste of taxpayer money” Mr. Deutsch writes: “As is so often the case, people have let their good intentions render them completely mindless, because no state, regardless of its heavily religious population, will ever be able to successfully legislate morality. … in all fairness, the only pages turning in Utah come from the Book of Mormon, not Hustler or Penthouse. In fact, the very idea that Utah has a pornography problem is utterly ridiculous. … Though they can be tasteless at times, pornographic images are already heavily governed and they do not really pose a significant threat to anyone, much less an entire state. The destructive force at work in Utah is not pornography. It is intolerance.” From [http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:dv5PKbNyEU0J:www.rtis.com/touchstone/nov01/25.HTM+"george+deutsch"+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=33&ie=UTF-8](http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:dv5PKbNyEU0J:www.rtis.com/touchstone/nov01/25.HTM+%22george+deutsch%22+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=33&ie=UTF-8) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/13 "2006-02-05T07:48:38Z")
The head of NASA is trying to put a stop to this nonsense: > [@](#): > > \*From the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/science/04climate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) > > “It is not the job of public-affairs officers,” Dr. Griffin wrote in an e-mail message to the agency’s 19,000 employees, “to alter, filter or adjust engineering or scientific material produced by NASA’s technical staff.” > > The statement came six days after The New York Times quoted the scientist, James E. Hansen, as saying he was threatened with “dire consequences” if he continued to call for prompt action to limit emissions of heat-trapping gases linked to global warming. He and intermediaries in the agency’s 350-member public-affairs staff said the warnings came from White House appointees in NASA headquarters. > > … > In October, for example, George Deutsch, a presidential appointee in NASA headquarters, told a Web designer working for the agency to add the word “theory” after every mention of the Big Bang, according to an e-mail message from Mr. Deutsch that another NASA employee forwarded to The Times. > > And in December 2004, a scientist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory complained to the agency that he had been pressured to say in a news release that his oceanic research would help advance the administration’s goal of space exploration. Kudos to the head of NASA for standing up to these political appointees. He is a patriot. In the past, such behavior has not been a good career move, but perhaps Dr. Griffith will not suffer the same fate as the economist who said the Iraqi war might cost $200 billion (fired) or [the analyst who was threatened with termination if he accurately described the costs of the prescription drug plan](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0312-01.htm). Good luck Dr. Griffith. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/14 "2006-02-05T07:53:12Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > If I was on the jury, I would fight for a not-guilty verdict. > > BTW: Where can I pick up a Clue by Four? Sounds like a damn handy item to have around. > > Jim I have a Clue-by-Four, also known as a Staff of Attitude Adjustment. It’s my walking stick, and so far I’ve never actually hit anyone with it…but I’ve come damned close. I think that it should be perfectly legal to cause non-damaging pain to people who utter stupid statements. I get to decide what is a stupid statement, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/15 "2006-02-05T08:41:43Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > True. However, as part of his duties he had to manage NASA, as far as I know. > > My point being: if the appointer doesn’t know the first thing about the subject of the institution he’s supposed to manage, his appointees probably won’t know much about it either. Much as I hate to defend Dan Quayle, the VP is not the manager of NASA. I think he is the chair of a committee, which got started by JFK, who got to appoint LBJ, who gave a shit, to the position. No one at NASA was going to listen to the VP, and I know of no cases where the VP told them to change anything in publications. That some moron ordered someone at NASA to say the Big Bang is just a theory make me fucking angry. It reminds me of the commissars, who could change anything on political grounds. As far as how the government is run, Bush and his gang are really a bunch of Commies. The Bushies have usually defended their science policy. Care to defend this one? ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/16 "2006-02-05T09:11:58Z")
Best line about politics from and editor ever (from the link in the OP): “What’s even more annoying is the fact that George seems to have been operating without any adult supervision” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/17 "2006-02-05T15:04:08Z")
It is just one more example of the Bush administration changing, or ignoring science, facts, and common sense in order to push one specific “brand of” religion or one specific agenda. NASA is supposedly all about science and research. It is not a religious organization or church and should get out of the “religion business”. This is not the first time “religiosity” has interfered with science and it won’t be the lat time. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/18 "2006-02-05T15:10:34Z")
> [@Pullet](#): > > “What’s even more annoying is the fact that George seems to have been operating without any adult supervision” Which George? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/19 "2006-02-05T16:23:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > NASA is supposedly all about science and research. It is not a religious organization or church and should get out of the “religion business”. But NASA proved that [Joshua really made the sun stand still](http://www.snopes.com/religion/lostday.htm)! ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/20 "2006-02-05T16:28:17Z")
NASA has become apologetic to religion? WTF? Holy shit, we’re doomed. Sam [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078.md?page=2)