# The Big Bang is not proven fact; it is opinion. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078 "2006-02-05T05:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/41 "2006-02-05T20:42:08Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Has anyone asked this knobhead how _else_ he explains the galactic redshift and cosmic background microwave radiation? The Big Bang is as true as the roundness, the continual emergence of new species over billions of years, or the reality of the Holocaust. And don’t forget the abundance of helium. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/42 "2006-02-05T20:51:19Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > they greased some metaphorical dicks at the Bush/Cheney campaign Maybe not even metaphorical. Between the morons in the Middle East reacting violently because of some cartoons, and the morons in the US pulling this kind of crap, we’re up to our ears in morons. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/43 "2006-02-05T20:53:01Z")
> [@sunfish](#): > > Your sarcasm meter needs a bit of tweaking, methinks. No, I don’t think my sarcasm whatthefuckever needs a tweak. I think I’m just sick and damned tired of seeing stories like this. I used to get outraged. Then it gradually wore down to eyerolling. THen it failed to make a blip on my radar. Today, I just kinda do this: :smack: in front of my computer monitor. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/44 "2006-02-05T20:57:56Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > So let me get it straight - if a Bush appointee steps out of line, it’s Bush’s fault. If a Bush appointee does good things, well, it’s sheer luck. Is that about it? I can’t answer for **samclem** , but my thought is that if a Bush appointee does good things, it’s in _spite_ of his/her masters, and probably in direct opposition to policy. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/45 "2006-02-05T20:59:49Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > And don’t forget the abundance of helium. I’m sure that’s just as easy for him to explain as the background radiation and galactic redshift: “God made it that way.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/46 "2006-02-05T21:07:44Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I guess you my not have heard the news, but the process has already begun to put chimpanzees into our genus, homo due to the fact that it is far more similar to us than most things grouped under the same genus elsewhere in the animal kingdom. My emphasis. Not sure if you meant that seriously, but that isn’t even remotely true. There’s too much baggage in the current genus classifications of \*Pan \*and \*Homo \*to merge the two, not to mention the baggage in a slew of other genera: _Australopithicus_, etc. There will always be a few biologists clammoring for geuns refrom, and even if their argument makes sense scientitifically, it just isn’t going to fly. Not in our lifetimes at least. You could produce a human/chimp hybrid tomorrow, and that wouldn’t matter. \*Pan \*and \*Homo \*aren’t going anywhere. BTW, your bonobo sex jpeg was extremely tame by bonobo standards. Those guys (and gals) can do it like nobodies business!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/47 "2006-02-05T21:09:22Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > No, I don’t think my sarcasm whatthefuckever needs a tweak. I think I’m just sick and damned tired of seeing stories like this. I used to get outraged. Then it gradually wore down to eyerolling. THen it failed to make a blip on my radar. > > Today, I just kinda do this: :smack: in front of my computer monitor. > > Sam I thought maybe you hadn’t followed RevTim’s link to the Snopes article that said NASA had done nothing to be apologetic to religion. If you did but were just being sarcastic yourself, then it’s my whoosh and my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/48 "2006-02-05T22:26:21Z")
Sorry, Sunny…looks like we’ve had an all-around misunderstanding. I didn’t read the Snopes article, and my frustration/exclamation was directly in response to the Mouthpiece that this story is in regards to, not NASA or their scientists. George Deutsch is a fucking tool, and his press statements are what piss me pff, even if the work behind the scenes aren’t as religiously apologetic as it may seem. Perhaps in a decade or so, we can remove the presidentially appointed bullshit from their work and have a nice body of research that isn’t totally fucking whitewashed. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/49 "2006-02-05T22:35:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > My emphasis. Well yes, my quote. I used the proper words. > [@](#): > > Not sure if you meant that seriously, but that isn’t even remotely true. > **[Closer to man than ape](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2006/jan/24/research.highereducation)** > > · DNA study supports call to reclassify chimpanzees· 'Historic differences' may not be so great, tests find And lets not forget: chimps were originally in genus Homo. > [@](#): > > There’s too much baggage in the current genus classifications of \*Pan \*and \*Homo \*to merge the two, not to mention the baggage in a slew of other genera: _Australopithicus_, etc. There will always be a few biologists clammoring for geuns refrom, and even if their argument makes sense scientitifically, it just isn’t going to fly. Not in our lifetimes at least. \*Pan \*and \*Homo \*aren’t going anywhere. I’m not sure about that. There is only one major morphological feature that modern humans have that chimps lack: an indented pallate (which allows us to form much more sophisticated sounds). Everything else is an increase in size, reduction in hair, and so on. In most other family/genus debates, there’s a LOT more variation than that within a genus, and often a lot more time separating the species. The debate is certainly by no means resolved, and you’re right that it may never resolve that way. But the process is certainly underway to try and make it happen. > [@](#): > > BTW, your bonobo sex jpeg was extremely tame by bonobo standards. Those guys (and gals) can do it like nobodies business!! 🙂 They are particularly creative with sex swinging and hanging on vines. But I thought animated gifs would be sort of tasteless. I just wanted a picture of humping. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/50 "2006-02-05T22:37:03Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I hear were planing to repeal the law of gravity next. “Would you prepared if gravity reversed itself? The only thing I can’t figure out is how to keep the change in my pockets. _beat_ I’ve got it. Nudity.” As for the Big Bang, it is indeed a theory, and it would be amiss to say that it is anything but a speculative one; we’ve see no event, nor direct consequence that could be and only be the result of a big supersingularity explosion. On the other hand, there is a substantial amount of cosmological and astronomical evidence that tends to favor the theory as a common explaination for universal origin. On the other hand, there isn’t a single piece of solid evidence that the universe was, as the Christian Bible suggests, formed in six days by a guy with a shaggy beard and a booming voice who couldn’t be bothered to work overtime to correct some of the more egregious oversights, such as certain anatomical inconveniences, the rakish angle of the Earth which makes much of it only marginally habitable, and the problem of keeping coffee at the proper drinking temperature for more than ninty seconds. So, on the whole, we’d have to opt for Big Bang Theory over Big God Thoery, unless we posit that Big God is, in fact, a dyspeptic hyperdimensional being with Attention Deficit Disorder and who failed out on Fundamental Biomechanics at the School for Divine and Omnipotent Architects. This isn’t to say that there can’t be some kind of supernatural intelligence behind the Big Bang…but when you keep having to pull your deity back behind layer after layer of emperically verified scientific theories, you have to wonder what the purpose of a Creator is at all. Are we, in fact, the creation of a mutant virus sneezed out of the nose of an extra-branal pan-dimensional being with the hyperdimensional equivilent of a cold? And if so, what does that do to the quality of our lives? More importantly, how can we harness this fact to keep our coffee hot but not scalding? An intelligent, curious being must have his, hers, or its priorities; after all, there would be no persistant late-night inquiry without adequate supplies of caffine. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/51 "2006-02-05T22:43:55Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > So let me get it straight - if a Bush appointee steps out of line, it’s Bush’s fault. If a Bush appointee does good things, well, it’s sheer luck. Is that about it? No. But basic competance is not something I’m going to applaud. The fact that the head of NASA has to defend scientific integrity in the first place is not something to celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/52 "2006-02-05T22:59:40Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Bush lost me when he called for a ban on human/animal hybrids. Damnit, my life doesn’t have meaning unless I get a chance to own a genuine Humpanzee or a Manchilla. Dude, we’re way past the research stage. They already had a documentary on this. > **[Manimal (TV Series 1983) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085051/)** > > Manimal: Created by Donald R. Boyle, Glen A. Larson. With Simon MacCorkindale, Melody Anderson, Reni Santoni, Michael D. Roberts. A man who can change himself into any animal fights crime. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/53 "2006-02-05T23:04:39Z")
But he didn’t have that soft, silky Manchilla fur. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/54 "2006-02-06T00:42:52Z")
[Creationists Challenge The Teaching of Water’s Freezing Point](http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2005/05/12/boll/index1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/55 "2006-02-06T01:17:38Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > This doesn’t change the fact that overall he’s done more for NASA than Bill Clinton ever did. I propose that every OP criticising Bush end with an acknowledgement that CWW. It may not be true in every case, but it keeps things simpler and saves conservatives some typing. CWW. CWW. Yes, we know, in all things and in every way, CWW. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/56 "2006-02-06T01:50:22Z")
In 10 years when we outsource our space program to the Chinese, none of this will matter. They will do it cheaper and probably take a few more risks to push the envelope. Having a communist government will let them avoid the Intelligent Design argument and concentrate on science. Our nation losing the lead in the space program won’t bother me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/57 "2006-02-06T02:19:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > > [@Sam Stone](#): > > > > This doesn’t change the fact that overall he’s done more for NASA than Bill Clinton ever did. > > I propose that every OP criticising Bush end with an acknowledgement that CWW. > > It may not be true in every case, but it keeps things simpler and saves conservatives some typing. > > CWW. CWW. Yes, we know, in all things and in every way, CWW. Actually, CEV may end up being the death-knoll of NASA. Because of CEV and the Moon objective (funny how nobody has been talking about Mars recently) NASA has been gutting the highly cost-effective unmanned programs; people at JPL are desperately clinging to work as decade-long programs are being slashed in order to meet budget limitations imposed by the underfunded moon mission mandate. And CEV is a moving target with regard to overall mission capabilities, in no small part because it owes its existence to a political desire to one-up the Chinese rather than accomplish any specific scientific, technological, or strategic goal. One can’t say much for Clinton in regard to his attention or interest in space exploration, but at least his plans didn’t involve destroying the programs (and careers) of the hundreds of scientists and engineers (and thousands more dependent upon the data from these missions) in order to stump against Chinese incursion into space or somesuch. CEV, as currently budgeted, is grossly overcosted for using mostly off-the-shelf hardware (the STS Solid Rocket Boosters), and a retooling of Apollo Plus for the capsule. And as we’re all aware, contractors virtually never underspend their budgets; using recent programs as an example, we can conservatively expect at least a 50% cost increase over the original (excessive) estimate. Once the Next Guy gets into office and elects to pay for the current spending largess by slashing unneeded programs, odds are good that CEV will be one of the first on the chopping block, and with it the bulk of NASA’s funds. I hope I’m wrong. I also hope the kids in the foothills of Altadena can hang on long enough for some astute statesman to reinstate their funding and let them continue with the business of exploring the solar system on a bargin basement budget. In other news, Charlie Brown still waiting for The Great Pumpkin to arrive. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/58 "2006-02-06T06:18:31Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Which George? The line is referencing George Deutsch, but it’s still damned funny. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/59 "2006-02-06T06:32:18Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Are we, in fact, the creation of a mutant virus sneezed out of the nose of an extra-branal pan-dimensional being with the hyperdimensional equivilent of a cold? > > Stranger No, we are all characters in a novel by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. in one of his wilder moods. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078/60 "2006-02-06T09:50:30Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I hear were planing to repeal the law of gravity next. > > I can’t wait to be able to fly 😃 here, just have a lick of this toad… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang-is-not-proven-fact-it-is-opinion/343078.md?page=4)