# The Big Bang **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330 "2011-12-07T02:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Matz0rz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Matz0rz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matz0rz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/1 "2011-12-07T02:05:25Z")
First of all, I’d like to introduce my-self, my name is Mat and I just found this awesome website. I was reading your comments about god and the thread about the universe; I thought I might have some fun debating the subject my-self. It will be quite a challenge to tackle all the questions the universe holds for us… So I did a little research… Encarta Dictionary: “big bang” (noun) > [@](#): > > “The explosion of a single extremely dense mass of matter that started the universe according to a popular theory big bang theory” English Assistance Dictionary: “the big bang” (noun) > [@](#): > > “Explosion that formed the universe. An explosion that some scientists believe happened 15 billion years ago and caused the universe to begin to exist. This belief is called the Big Bang Theory.” Now, when I think about it, **fifteen billion years ago** … I know Straight Dope has been here for a long time but nobody can go back fifteen **BILLION** years to witness the creation of “everything”. I extracted the following text from [http://www.umich.edu](http://www.umich.edu), therefor I remember learning all this in my earth science class. > [@](#): > > “About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What existed prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation. This occurrence was not a conventional explosion but rather an event filling all of space with all of the particles of the embryonic universe rushing away from each other. The Big Bang actually consisted of an explosion of space within itself unlike an explosion of a bomb were fragments are thrown outward. The galaxies were not all clumped together, but rather the Big Bang lay the foundations for the universe. > > The origin of the Big Bang theory can be credited to Edwin Hubble. Hubble made the observation that the universe is continuously expanding. He discovered that a galaxy’s velocity is proportional to its distance. Galaxies that are twice as far from us move twice as fast. Another consequence is that the universe is expanding in every direction. This observation means that it has taken every galaxy the same amount of time to move from a common starting position to its current position. The Big Bang provided for the foundation of the universe, his observations provided for the foundation of the Big Bang theory. > > Since the Big Bang, the universe has been continuously expanding and, thus, there has been more and more distance between clusters of galaxies. This phenomenon of galaxies moving farther away from each other is known as the red shift. As light from distant galaxies approach earth there is an increase of space between earth and the galaxy, which leads to wavelengths being stretched. > > In addition to the understanding of the velocity of galaxies emanating from a single point, there is further evidence for the Big Bang. In 1964, two astronomers, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, in an attempt to detect microwaves from outer space, inadvertently discovered a noise of extraterrestrial origin. The noise did not seem to emanate from one location but instead, it came from all directions at once. It became obvious that what they heard was radiation from the farthest reaches of the universe which had been left over from the Big Bang. This discovery of the radioactive aftermath of the initial explosion lent much credence to the Big Bang theory. > > Even more recently, NASAs COBE satellite was able to detect cosmic microwaves emanating from the outer reaches of the universe. These microwaves were remarkably uniform which illustrated the homogeneity of the early stages of the universe. However, the satellite also discovered that as the universe began to cool and was still expanding, small fluctuations began to exist due to temperature differences. These fluctuations verified prior calculations of the possible cooling and development of the universe just fractions of a second after its creation. These fluctuations in the universe provided a more detailed description of the first moments after the Big Bang. They also helped to tell the story of the formation of galaxies which will be discussed in the next chapter. > > The Big Bang theory provides a viable solution to one of the most pressing questions of all time. It is important to understand, however, that the theory itself is constantly being revised. As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial.” Now, if this is all true (the Big question), I’m starting to think that the all mighty God might just be “the big bang” or vice versa. Let me quote Cecil’s Reply “Is there a god (revisited)” > [@](#): > > “So let’s set all that aside and focus solely on Thomas’s idea that God is the First Cause — and remember, this is the core idea of one of the world’s foremost religious thinkers. A useful proxy for the First Cause is energy, which has a number of qualities commonly ascribed to the divine. The laws of thermodynamics tell us that energy is neither created nor destroyed, and thus presumably is immortal. Einstein’s famous equation E=mc² suggests energy can be transmuted into matter and vice versa, and so may be said to be the wellspring of all creation, just as God is.” Okay, I’m soso familiar with the Bible, but I think it’s full of amusing stories that are full of good values that we should all stand by. Therefor that does NOT mean “God” turned water in to wine or that “God” actually existed. For all I know, he’s just the main character in the oldest fairy tale known to man; Jesus was just mentally ill and Mary simply had an affair. **NO OFFENCE ATTENDED**. Dear Cecil or whoever, Did the “Big Bang” happen? Religion preaches God is the creator of the universe, is the “Big Bang” god or vice versa? Do you have any speculations on what was before the “Big Bang”? If the universe is expanding, will it ever stop? I’m looking forward to replies. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/2 "2011-12-07T02:21:58Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > Religion preaches God is the creator of the universe, is the “Big Bang” god or vice versa? Sure, you could call the big bang god, but there’s no reason to. It’s a much less descriptive word, and it brings with it all sorts of unwanted and counter-productive connotations. > [@](#): > > Do you have any speculations on what was before the “Big Bang”? To the best of our knowledge, the big bang was the beginning of time. Asking what came before it is like asking what’s north of the north pole. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/3 "2011-12-07T02:28:05Z")
Well the physicists on board can give you some fairly detailed answers about what current cosmological speculations are. My quick stab is - Probably. Depends on how you define God. But not in the way most use the term. To my take time itself ceases to exist at the Big Bang so there is no before, but some have speculated that the Bang is the end of another contraction … But current thinking is that universe is not slowing its expansion, but is instead speeding up, driven by what gets called “dark energy”. So by this thinking, no, it won’t ever stop. ---
**Author:** ![Matz0rz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Matz0rz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matz0rz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/4 "2011-12-07T02:29:25Z")
@strinka, well the world is round to my knowledge, thus what’s North of the North Pole is obviously Antartica. The question is, “Do you have any speculations…” feel free to speculate the big bang is the begining of time, I think there must of been something there. I’ll quote the Encarta Dictionary > [@](#): > > “The explosion of a single extremely **dense mass of matter** that started the universe according to a popular theory big bang theory” ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/5 "2011-12-07T02:30:38Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > To the best of our knowledge, the big bang was the beginning of time. Asking what came before it is like asking what’s north of the north pole. Not necessarily true. If the big bang was a singularity, there could be time before the big bang, but nothing that happened in that time could have any effect on anything after the singularity. Whatever happened before the big bang would be scientifically unknowable, but thats not the same as saying time didn’t exist before it. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/6 "2011-12-07T02:46:46Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > well the world is round to my knowledge, thus what’s North of the North Pole is obviously Antartica. The north pole is the absolute northernmost point. All directions from that point take you south. Analogously, the Big Bang might (or might not) mark the beginning of time in our universe. If so, it would be meaningless to ask what came before it. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/7 "2011-12-07T02:48:17Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > @strinka, well the world is round to my knowledge, thus what’s North of the North Pole is obviously Antartica. How so? Round or not, Antarctica is south of the North pole. ---
**Author:** ![Matz0rz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Matz0rz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matz0rz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/8 "2011-12-07T02:51:36Z")
Well common sense is that the North is up. Scientifically speaking I understand that Antarctica is south of the North Pole. This is all beside the point lmfao. Stick with the Big Bang … ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/9 "2011-12-07T03:43:37Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > To the best of our knowledge, the big bang was the beginning of time. Asking what came before it is like asking what’s north of the north pole. To expand on this analogy: I’ve heard people say, “Well there has to be \*\*\*something \*\*\*before the Big Bang. Suppose you just go back in time, and when you get to the Big Bang you just keep going. Where (or when) would you be?” Now suppose someone says, “There has to be \*\*\*something \*\*\*north of the North Pole. Suppose you just keep traveling north, and when you get to the North Pole you just keep going. Where would you be?” Obviously the answer is that at the moment you cross the North Pole you then find yourself traveling south. So if you intend to cross the Big Bang, at the moment you reach it, you then begin traveling forward in time again. So in a way, you might say that north of the North Pole is south again, and before the Big Bang is “forward in time” again. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/10 "2011-12-07T06:04:38Z")
Heck, you want some mind-blowing notions, there’s a line of thought that the universe’s expansion will eventually slow, stop, and reverse, leading to a “Big Crunch” that recompresses the universe back to a singularity, from which, possibly, another Big Bang could follow, restarting the cycle. Of course, why we should assume that any human religion has any relevant commentary or insight on the issue escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/11 "2011-12-07T06:26:28Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > @strinka, well the world is round to my knowledge, thus what’s North of the North Pole is obviously Antartica. The question is, “Do you have any speculations…” feel free to speculate the big bang is the begining of time, I think there must of been something there. I’ll quote the Encarta Dictionary The Encarta Dictionary is wrong. You shouldn’t try to learn science from dictionaries, there are plenty of very good books on cosmology out there. Just after the big bang the universe was pure energy. Very shortly after the energy “froze” into matter. Matter and energy are equivalent, in a sense, which is what E = mc\*\*2 is all about. The other thing is that the Big Bang was not about matter expanding into space - it was about space itself expanding. As for God, if you want to call God the Big Bang feel free, but clearly it has nothing to do with the interventionist, personal god of most human religions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/12 "2011-12-07T06:50:40Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > If the universe is expanding, will it ever stop? Right now, the evidence says the universe will keep expanding forever. There is basically not enough matter in the universe to make the expansion slow down and stop (or stop and reverse itself). In fact I believe the rate of expansion is increasing. Before you ask, that doesn’t mean much of anything for us because the earth (and our solar system, our galaxy, our local group, etc.) is held together by gravity- it’s not going to come apart because the universe is expanding. Also, the estimated age of the universe has been refined a bit in recent years. Scientists currently believe the Big Bang happened 13.7 billion years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/13 "2011-12-07T07:31:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, you want some mind-blowing notions, there’s a line of thought that the universe’s expansion will eventually slow, stop, and reverse, leading to a “Big Crunch” that recompresses the universe back to a singularity, from which, possibly, another Big Bang could follow, restarting the cycle. I think writer Gene Wolfe referred to this as the “universal heartbeat”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/14 "2011-12-07T08:50:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In fact I believe the rate of expansion is increasing. Before you ask, that doesn’t mean much of anything for us because the earth (and our solar system, our galaxy, our local group, etc.) is held together by gravity- it’s not going to come apart because the universe is expanding. That depends on whether or not the “[Big Rip](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip)” scenario is true. > [@](#): > > About 60 million years before the end, gravity would be too weak to hold the Milky Way and other individual galaxies together. Approximately three months before the end, the solar system (or systems similar to our own at this time, as the fate of our own solar system 7.5 billion years in the future is questionable) would be gravitationally unbound. In the last minutes, stars and planets would be torn apart, and an instant before the end, atoms would be destroyed.[1] ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/15 "2011-12-07T12:33:26Z")
Why would you look to a dictionary for information on anything when there’s Wikipedia? Go read up on the [actual theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_theory), then slide over to [cosmology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology) where you can slog through 3000 years worth of universal models though I suggest you read about [cosmic inflation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation) since that’s the current mainstream view. Inflation has some issues but it does address the impressive uniformity of what we can actually measure and observer today. Basically matter resides inside spacetime, spacetime appears to be expanding and cooling. Therefore if you “ran the tape” backwards you would get a progressively hotter and denser object. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/16 "2011-12-07T12:39:27Z")
Why even bring religion into this? People who consider religion at place in a science debate are generally like those who consider communism at place in an economics debate: stupid, small-minded, biased, and incredibly hard to convince that their beliefs are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/17 "2011-12-07T13:40:25Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > Now, if this is all true (the Big question), I’m starting to think that the all mighty God might just be “the big bang” or vice versa. Let me quote Cecil’s Reply “Is there a god (revisited)” Why? Seems like a bit of a non sequitur to me. I mean, it’s probably possible, but that doesn’t seem a good enough reason to conclude that it is the case. > [@Matz0rz](#): > > Did the “Big Bang” happen? > Religion preaches God is the creator of the universe, is the “Big Bang” god or vice versa? > Do you have any speculations on what was before the “Big Bang”? > If the universe is expanding, will it ever stop? The big bang is merely the expansion of time and space. It doesn’t necessarily represent an ultimate beginning. I’m sympathetic to the [block universe idea](http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/reality_block_universe.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/18 "2011-12-07T13:42:19Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > @strinka, well the world is round to my knowledge, thus what’s North of the North Pole is obviously Antartica. Eh? No no no no! To get to Antartica from the North Pole, you South. There is no north of the North Pole. Everywhere is South of it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/19 "2011-12-07T13:51:16Z")
> [@Matz0rz](#): > > Religion preaches God is the creator of the universe, is the “Big Bang” god or vice versa? No. “God” is just a myth created by some primitives who had no idea how the universe worked. It has no connection with modern science. Some people are apparently just so addicted to the label “God” that since there’s no bearded sky-god, they instead try to apply the term “God” to the Big Bang, the Universe, the laws of physics, or something else they feel sufficiently cosmic. But there’s no good reason to do so; the term refers to a particular mythical entity, and the reason they try to label _anything_ “God” is because they are clinging to that myth, not for any scientific reasons. If they came from some culture that never heard of “God”, they wouldn’t think of labeling the Big Bang or whatever by that term; it is purely derived from a particular religious mythology. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330/20 "2011-12-07T16:24:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Why even bring religion into this? People who consider religion at place in a science debate are generally like those who consider communism at place in an economics debate: stupid, small-minded, biased, and incredibly hard to convince that their beliefs are wrong. Well, your final description seems to describe your attitude more than that of anyone else in this thread. Knock it off. [/Moderating] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-bang/605330.md?page=2)