# The Big Game (Mexico vs USA in Azteca) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791 "2005-03-22T23:08:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/41 "2005-03-24T14:43:20Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Quite right. I think that Maradonna is the greatest footballer who ever lived, and is certainly the best i ever saw in the flesh. Nope, the greatest footballer that ever lived is [Edson Arantes do Nascimento](http://www.latinosportslegends.com/Pele_bio.htm) also known as Pele. He averaged almost a goal a game over his entire career. Just the bicycle kick in the horrible movie [Victory](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083284/) should clinch this. A close second is [Mane](http://usr.solar.com.br/~juliocba/garrincha.htm), also known as Garrincha. I always think he would have been more popular, more famous and more successful than Pele if it hadn’t been for alcohol and women cutting short his career. These two are then followed by Maradona. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/42 "2005-03-24T15:00:54Z")
> [@Mycroft Holmes](#): > > These two are then followed by Maradona. I always thought it was Cruyff right after those two. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/43 "2005-03-24T15:34:31Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I always thought it was Cruyff right after those two. Nope, Cruyff comes after Maradona, but way ahead of Franz Beckenbauer (who is now politicing to follow Lennart Johansson as president of UEFA by the way. Platini was fighting mad, because he has wanted the job for a while now and already is in the UEFA Executive Commitee). ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/44 "2005-03-24T15:48:49Z")
Well there’s no right answer to this but my top 10 (in my life time so no Garrincha, Mathews etc) would be: Maradonna Cruyff Pele Platini Muller Beckenbaur Moore Yashin Jarzinho Zidane Purely personal opinion and all that. I think Maradonna was a man who made up for the deficiencies of a not-so-great team, where as Pele was surrounded by class. I also think that Cruyff had rather more than he did, but it’s all subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/45 "2005-03-24T15:53:44Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Well there’s no right answer to this but my top 10 (in my life time so no Garrincha, Mathews etc) would be: > > Maradonna > Cruyff > Pele > Platini > Muller > Beckenbaur > Moore > Yashin > Jarzinho > Zidane > > Purely personal opinion and all that. I think Maradonna was a man who made up for the deficiencies of a not-so-great team, where as Pele was surrounded by class. I also think that Cruyff had rather more than he did, but it’s all subjective. What about DiStefano? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/46 "2005-03-24T15:55:14Z")
WHoops, missed the “in my lifetime” bit. Nevermind. How about…what about Eusebio 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/47 "2005-03-24T16:06:13Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > WHoops, missed the “in my lifetime” bit. Nevermind. > > How about…what about Eusebio 🙂 Before my time old chap. ---
**Author:** ![Dubious\_Sacrifice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f08c70/32.png) [@Dubious\_Sacrifice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dubious_Sacrifice)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/48 "2005-03-24T16:55:47Z")
Man, I can’t wait for this game! US-Mexico, World Cup qualifier, Azteca, Mexico looking to revenge World Cup '02, 100,000 anger Mexicans! Major, major soccer match (for Americans, anyway!). > [@fifaworldcup.com](#): > > The likes of Claudio Reyna, Landon Donovan, Carlos Bocanegra, Eddie Lewis, Tim Howard and Brian McBride will all have missed out on two crucial friendlies (a 3-0 win over Colombia and a 1-0 victory over Honduras ) and the high-altitude training in Colorado. This fact will leave Arena in a bit of a quandary: does he depend more on the domestic-based players who, though in their MLS off-season, have had the opportunity to train together, or instead throw in the Euro-stars? :bites nails: > [@Fifaworldcup.com](#): > > Defeat is not an option, and it will be down to striking duo Jared Borgetti and Jaime Lozano to put the ball in the back of the net. The two are joint-top of the region’s scoring charts with ten goals apiece. :bites nails: Damn, I can’t wait! ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/49 "2005-03-24T17:15:06Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > The Faroes? > > Ohh, bad weather, I get it. > > The thing is, it’s not that people would get killed in Mexico City. It’s that as a U. S. player, you’re up against 100,000 people, the altitude, your country’s foreign policy, real or exaggerated racial slights dating back to the Gadsden purchase . . . you’ve come up with a bunch of matches that combine some of those things, but none of them offer every single danger that Mexico City provides, rolled into 2 hours of fun this weekend. > > Sure, English fans may find it dangerous going abroad. But I don’t think self-inflicted hooligan behavior is something that would make winning harder for the English team. Euro football is so incredibly sheltered that players need protection from [racist fans](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/soccer/wires/03/21/2050.ap.eu.spt.soc.fifa.racism.0187/index.html), as opposed to batteries or urine bags. > > Sorry, my friend, I think a player would much rather play his WC qualifying anywhere in Europe than in some of the tropical shitholes that the US gets to play in. On this particular issue, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. English clubs were banned from playing in Europe for five years because of the behaviour of their fans. Over 30 people were killed in a riot when Liverpool played Juventus. I was at the match in Dublin in January of 1995 when the English fans rioted and almost levelled Lansdown Road. Bags on urine (been done in Europe for years) were the least of the problems that day. Europe has spent decades combatting fan hooliganism. Do you have any idea how bad Turkey is? Albania? Estonia or anywhere in the former Yugoslavia? You don’t so you comment on how “tough” the Americans have. Try going to a Glasgow Celtic/Rangers match and tell me how easy it is to play in that atmosphere. America play a meaningless game in Mexico City and yet you claim that it is worse than what any European team may have to go through. We not only have the hostile atmosphere but our games mean something and they’re againt real teams. . ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/50 "2005-03-24T17:19:24Z")
Playing a game in front of a hostile crowd might be good practice for a team qualifying for the World Cup, but the USSF shouldn’t schedule US-Mexico games in Southern California if they want to develop any sort of national loyalty to the team. You aren’t going to get Joe Non-soccer Fan the least bit interested in watching a sport if his national team is being booed on its native soil. Americans got behind the women’s national team because it was winning and there were cheering crowds in the country and the players were marketed well. You can’t really garner a lot of support if you show the men’s national team getting pelted by debris at the L.A. Coliseum. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/51 "2005-03-24T17:20:28Z")
Is the England - Norn Iorn match the only one where same anthem is played twice? So much for inclusiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/52 "2005-03-24T17:21:29Z")
> [@Mycroft Holmes](#): > > Nope, the greatest footballer that ever lived is [Edson Arantes do Nascimento](http://www.latinosportslegends.com/Pele_bio.htm) also known as Pele. He averaged almost a goal a game over his entire career. Just the bicycle kick in the horrible movie [Victory](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083284/) should clinch this. > > A close second is [Mane](http://usr.solar.com.br/~juliocba/garrincha.htm), also known as Garrincha. I always think he would have been more popular, more famous and more successful than Pele if it hadn’t been for alcohol and women cutting short his career. > > These two are then followed by Maradona. Heh, I could have scored on that 1970 Brazillian team. Gerson could have landed a ball right on my head from 30 yards and it would have gone in without me knowing any better! Pele was, of course, a magnificent player but he played on one of the greatest teams of all time. Moreover, he scored most of his goals in the questionable Brazillian league. On the other hand, Maradonna basically dragged an average Argentinian team to two World Cup Finals. Further, he won Serie A with Napoli not once but twice which is an incredible achievement. He is, imho, a significantly greater player than Pele. I would also add Cryuff and Best to that list though I do like your addition of Garrincha. Roberto Baggio should also get a mention as should Gullit and Van Basten. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/53 "2005-03-24T17:23:50Z")
If you want a really hostile game try Greece v Turkey in qualifying group two. They hate one another. Also; yanks, is this stadium as funny to you lot as it is to (puerile) me? [http://www.indianablast.com/games/kuntz.htm](http://www.indianablast.com/games/kuntz.htm) ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/54 "2005-03-24T17:29:00Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Is the England - Norn Iorn match the only one where same anthem is played twice? > . Nope - England v Leichenstein is as well (we have the same anthem). In any case (as I’m sure you’re aware) they will play Danny Boy for the Irish. “God Save The Queen” is, of course, actually the national anthem of all parts of the UK - it’s just tradition to use other songs in this context (and the jocks changed theirs a few years ago - it used to be Scotland the Brave). I’d quite like us to use Land Of Hope and Glory (let the rugger buggers have Jerusalem). ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/55 "2005-03-24T17:34:45Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > If you want a really hostile game try Greece v Turkey in qualifying group two. They hate one another. > > Also; yanks, is this stadium as funny to you lot as it is to (puerile) me? > > [http://www.indianablast.com/games/kuntz.htm](http://www.indianablast.com/games/kuntz.htm) That stadium doesn’t look any more unusual than any other college soccer stadium in the U.S. They don’t need a lot of seats for those. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/56 "2005-03-24T17:37:15Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Before my time old chap. Huh? How is Eusebio before your time, but Pele is not? ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/57 "2005-03-24T17:43:39Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Huh? How is Eusebio before your time, but Pele is not? Because he stopped playing internationaly in about 1968 - pele was visisible up to the mid 70s. Also as a lad I was naturally interested in the Brazilian team, but not the Portugese team (who were pants). Also the first attempt at an American League had a lot of British imports so we saw some of it over here - and thus saw some of Pele. So yeah, he was around - but I wasn’t taking any notice. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/58 "2005-03-24T17:44:53Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > That stadium doesn’t look any more unusual than any other college soccer stadium in the U.S. They don’t need a lot of seats for those. It’s not the seats I think is funny… ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/59 "2005-03-24T17:58:27Z")
I get it now. That person’s name is usually pronounced with an “oo” sound. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791/60 "2005-03-24T18:51:40Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > On this particular issue, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. > > English clubs were banned from playing in Europe for five years because of the behaviour of their fans. Over 30 people were killed in a riot when Liverpool played Juventus. I was at the match in Dublin in January of 1995 when the English fans rioted and almost levelled Lansdown Road. Bags on urine (been done in Europe for years) were the least of the problems that day. Europe has spent decades combatting fan hooliganism. > > Do you have any idea how bad Turkey is? Albania? Estonia or anywhere in the former Yugoslavia? You don’t so you comment on how “tough” the Americans have. Try going to a Glasgow Celtic/Rangers match and tell me how easy it is to play in that atmosphere. > > America play a meaningless game in Mexico City and yet you claim that it is worse than what any European team may have to go through. We not only have the hostile atmosphere but our games mean something and they’re againt real teams. . You had me at “agree to disagree” until you lapsed into Eurosnobbery with that last sentence. I’m not talking about hooliganism, I freely admit that the Euros have the monopoly on that. I’m talking about trying to win a game played (a) at 7200 feet altitude, (b) in a World Cup qualifier against someone in the same confederation, (c) against a team and country that hates you on every level. About the only thing I agree with you on is including Best on the list of, well, the world’s best. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-game-mexico-vs-usa-in-azteca/295791.md?page=4)