# The Big Meat Industry caught on video abusing pigs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422 "2011-06-30T19:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/141 "2011-07-11T20:02:38Z")
If you walk into a church and are surprised when people are talking about Jesus, you’re a fucking retard. A thread like this is the anti-CAFO equivalent of a church. So, are you retarded, or just a troll? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/142 "2011-07-11T20:51:35Z")
What’s wrong with CAFO meat? It’s a product. You shouldn’t conflate the issues of antibiotics and its impact on consumers and the supposed abuses of raising animals for protein in confined spaces. They are different issues. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/143 "2011-07-11T20:57:42Z")
Uh, no, they’re directly linked. CAFOs pump healthy animals full of antibiotics constantly so that they can be forced into confined spaces. That, in turn, helps create antibiotic-resistant bacteria. It’s a direct and provable result of CAFO meat production. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/144 "2011-07-11T21:28:31Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What’s wrong with CAFO meat? It’s a product. You shouldn’t conflate the issues of antibiotics and its impact on consumers and the supposed abuses of raising animals for protein in confined spaces. They are different issues. I know, let’s play connect the dots. :rolleyes: 70% of the antibiotics produced in this country are feed to the meat we consume. 47% of the meat and poultry recently tested in grocery stores had antibiotic resistant staph. CAFO’S have to include antibiotics with the feed or the animals die. Workers in the CAFO poultry industry often become allergic to antibiotic just by handling the birds. See the pattern? ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/145 "2011-07-12T01:20:39Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What’s wrong with CAFO meat? It’s a product. You shouldn’t conflate the issues of antibiotics and its impact on consumers and the supposed abuses of raising animals for protein in confined spaces. They are different issues. Did you read any of this multiple page thread before posting? Check any of the links? Talk about ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/146 "2011-07-12T10:47:33Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Quoted for Truth. > > I really get the feeling that a some people on the SDMB do not realize that there a good proportion of the USA works 12-15 hours a day. Couple that with 2-3 hours of commuting time, no real daycare options, plus the fact that they’re being paid close to minimum wage. The result is that this idea of spending hours at farmers markets to buy free range chickens we can take home to “work the bird”, along with locally grown produce we can all obviously afford so we can make nutritious home made meals in order to stand up against the CAFO evil - is a _ **fucking dream** _. I 've been thinking about this. Maybe the greater issue is that someone who works two jobs still can’t afford to purchase healthy food for their family. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/147 "2011-07-12T15:33:55Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > I have absolutely no respect for the views espoused by **shiftless**. > However the view adopting a vegetarian diet will eliminate animal suffering is also incorrect. > Have you ever seen a wheat field after harvest? > A combine leaves a path of destruction in its wake-ground nesting- birds, voles, mice,opossums, rabbits, gophers, snakes and even fawns are killed. Look, this shibboleth has been debunked before. In brief: 1. We farm animals intensively – Ma & Pa “free range” farming is such a small factor it can be discounted entirely for the purposes of discussing feeding humanity. 2. _Intensive_ animal farming _requires_, is based on, cannot be done without, growing grain crops and fodder. 3. Those crops in turn kill the _same_ small animals when being harvested, but, because it takes much _more_ plant matter to produce a given weight of meat, _more_ of those animals die to produce meat than to produce plants for human consumption. That addresses the argument I’ve seen that eating plants kills “more” animals. If you’re just arguing that eating plants unavoidably kills _some_ animals, the point of veganism is not to collapse into a singularity of hypocrisy if an animal does die, but to do what’s possible and practical to live without harm. Eating vegetables reduces harm as much as is currently practical. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/148 "2011-07-12T16:02:35Z")
I’m not sure what you think shibboleth means, but it ain’t right. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/149 "2011-07-12T16:06:15Z")
Larry Mudd makes excellent points, and presents them well. One thing about quiet “live and let live” vegetarians is that only if they become an overwhelming majority will it reduce the abuses of large scale meat production. It is like when Warren Buffet advocates for higher marginal tax rates, and people say: “Well, nothing is stopping WB from paying extra!”. The fact is that WB can’t pay enough extra to effect the change he wants to see. While I don’t agree with the obnoxious vegans, I really can’t fault someone for advocating for what they sincerely see as a better world. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/150 "2011-07-12T16:11:40Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > I 've been thinking about this. > Maybe the greater issue is that someone who works two jobs still can’t afford to purchase healthy food for their family. It’s an issue of access also. I live in an upper middle class area, not real fancy but nice. It borders an area that is depressed economically. There is one store in that area. It has no organic or free range meat of any kind. The only other protein available would be canned beans. If you’re not going to eat meat that’s your other option. Now to be fair there is another larger chain grocery store a 20 minute bus ride away, so I looked over there. No meat that isn’t CAFO of any kind. Nothing organic, nothing free range. This store does however also carry rice. So if you’re willing to spend 40 minutes on a bus, you can now have rice OR beans if you’re not going to eat meat. The point is that many people could choose better options and probably should. But we need to recognize that a great many people don’t have those options. I suppose you could say they should give up mean on principle but I’m not going to stand up and say “If you can’t afford meat that doesn’t offend someone else, then you’re too poor to eat meat - suck it up.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/151 "2011-07-12T16:12:01Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > While I don’t agree with the obnoxious vegans, I really can’t fault someone for advocating for what they sincerely see as a better world. I can, when they do it in such a way as to be so obnoxious as to poison the minds of the very people that the rest of us are trying to change in a way that isn’t modeled after an overbearing kindergarten teacher. > [@zoid](#): > > It’s an issue of access also. This is pretty much the only honest reason to eat CAFO meat other than “I just don’t want to give it up.” The dearth of anything but overpriced corner stores in low-income urban areas is kind of terrible. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/152 "2011-07-12T16:24:41Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If you walk into a church and are surprised when people are talking about Jesus, you’re a fucking retard. A thread like this is the anti-CAFO equivalent of a church. > > So, are you retarded, or just a troll? I’ll shoot for both. But, you know, pot, kettle, yada yada… Do continue. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/153 "2011-07-12T20:48:19Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Look, this shibboleth has been debunked before. In brief: > > 1. We farm animals intensively – Ma & Pa “free range” farming is such a small factor it can be discounted entirely for the purposes of discussing feeding humanity. > > 2. _Intensive_ animal farming _requires_, is based on, cannot be done without, growing grain crops and fodder. > > 3. Those crops in turn kill the _same_ small animals when being harvested, but, because it takes much _more_ plant matter to produce a given weight of meat, _more_ of those animals die to produce meat than to produce plants for human consumption. > > That addresses the argument I’ve seen that eating plants kills “more” animals. If you’re just arguing that eating plants unavoidably kills _some_ animals, the point of veganism is not to collapse into a singularity of hypocrisy if an animal does die, but to do what’s possible and practical to live without harm. Eating vegetables reduces harm as much as is currently practical. 1. Intensive CAFO farms are a fairly recent agricultural model which evolved in part, to provide the cheapest possible meat for mass consumption. The proliferation of fast food restaurants coupled with a concerted media campaign has convinced many Americans that meat should be part of every meal. Localized sustainable farming doesn’t have to remain a ‘small factor’ in producing meat for general consumption but the public will have to change what they eat and how they eat first. 1. Most ruminant animals should not be fed a diet based exclusively on grain and some, like cows, don’t need grain at all. Feedlot cattle develop ulcers that cause abscesses that must be treated with antibiotics and so the cycle continues. Goats and sheep can also survive quite nicely on forage although both are usually supplemented with some grain while nursing. Pigs can do fine without grain diet too (hence the proliferation of feral hogs in Texas) but are usually supplemented as well. None of the aforementioned animals requires a grain intensive diet. Broilers do require grain but the feed ratio conversion of the Cornish X is phenomenal which is why I raise them. It takes aproximately 6 pounds of grain to bring a Cornish X to 4 pounds dressed weight. That’s a lot of protein for minimal grain input. 1. See above. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/154 "2011-07-12T21:53:45Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > There is one store in that area. It has no organic or free range meat of any kind. The only other protein available would be canned beans. If you’re not going to eat meat that’s your other option. Bet they have Slim Jims. No meat in them. Skin and connective tissue, sure, but no meat. Can the customers walk the aisles or is it like Sam Drucker’s store except with 3/8" bulletproof glass between Sam and the customers? Those stores are EVER so charming and atmospheric! ---
**Author:** ![Linguini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ab097/32.png) [@Linguini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linguini)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/155 "2011-07-13T00:40:41Z")
So the “little” meat industry never abuses pigs? ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/156 "2011-07-13T00:53:12Z")
Correction: Feed conversion ratios aren’t normally my department. It takes about **12** pounds of feed to produce a \*\*4-pound \*\*bird. However, how many pounds of beans do you have to eat to equal the same easily digestible protein in a 4-pound roast chicken. Not to mention the amino acids and fats. And a raised right bird tastes soooo good. ---
**Author:** ![zephyr9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9fc348/32.png) [@zephyr9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zephyr9)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/157 "2011-07-29T04:55:09Z")
I can’t believe how many people on here seem to just brush off the cruelty of this thing. Ignorance, complacency, and selfishness. Why we still eat meat. Any other reason is bullshit. PS\> My dad’s a butcher. My family are hunters. I love to eat meat, love the taste. But it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/158 "2011-07-29T05:12:59Z")
> [@zephyr9](#): > > I can’t believe how many people on here seem to just brush off the cruelty of this thing. > Ignorance, complacency, and selfishness. Why we still eat meat. > Any other reason is bullshit. > > PS\> My dad’s a butcher. My family are hunters. I love to eat meat, love the taste. > But it’s wrong. Why is it wrong? We are omnivores. Our teeth are adapted for eating meat. I spent my summers as a child on a farm in Florida; I know how to turn a pig into pork. Hurting said pig as little as possible; I’d helped raise him. We eat meat because that is how we are designed. Americans eat more meat than necessary, I think, but we do need the protein rich meat for our diet. ---
**Author:** ![zephyr9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9fc348/32.png) [@zephyr9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zephyr9)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/159 "2011-07-29T17:11:11Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > Why is it wrong? We are omnivores. Our teeth are adapted for eating meat. > > I spent my summers as a child on a farm in Florida; I know how to turn a pig into pork. Hurting said pig as little as possible; I’d helped raise him. We eat meat because that is how we are designed. Americans eat more meat than necessary, I think, but we do need the protein rich meat for our diet. Ok, “hurting said pig as little as possible, I’d helped raise him.” Yeah, well, this “Seems Less Wrong.” Don’t agree that meat eating is just an inevitable outcome of our construction, or that we need it. We humans are smart enough to justify anything. I am in the fantasy world of absolutes. With human beings, there are no absolutes. I wouldn’t be at a barbecue at your grampop’s farm in Fla. being weird, I’d probably eat the pork. I think in the pure mythical world of ideals and morals and absolutes, it’s wrong to kill to eat when you could do with plants. We’re smart enough to know the animals hurt, and we’re smart enough to nourish ourselves in other ways. I do eat meat, and I struggle w/myself. I eat it cuz I “want” to. Have been vegetarian over long periods too… I am too allergic to animals to love em up close, and …tho I love snakes and like rats, I really don’t like cats. But they like me and I’ve rescued several of em. What gets me is the general human attitude that animals are here just for us to use…that their primary value is for how they can serve us…and the thing which is wrong is in the vid. What is in the vid is the outcome of the attitude that animals are ours to use. You sound like an animal lover. Don’t you think \*\*that’s \*\*wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422/160 "2011-07-29T17:20:10Z")
I know I’m way late to the party, but I just want to remark that in the proper light the title of this thread is incredibly kinky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-meat-industry-caught-on-video-abusing-pigs/587422.md?page=9)