# The Big Sleep - making sense of the plot **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732 "2018-05-07T04:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/21 "2018-05-09T14:42:54Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > In the novel it’s just, “Then she tried to sit in my lap.” A lot of the dialogue was invented for the film, most notably the horse-racing banter between Marlowe and Vivian. Thanks, Nonsuch. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/22 "2018-05-09T14:52:12Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > In the novel it’s just, “Then she tried to sit in my lap.” A lot of the dialogue was invented for the film, most notably the horse-racing banter between Marlowe and Vivian. Not only was the horse-racing banter invented for the film, it was invented and shot well after the rest. The first version of the film was completed in 1945, but not released for various reasons. By the time the studio was getting ready to release, Bogart-and-Bacall had become a real-life thing and they wanted to increase her role and the couple’s screen time together. That scene was added, along with quite a few other changes, and it was released in '46. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/23 "2018-05-09T16:06:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Not only was the horse-racing banter invented for the film, it was invented and shot well after the rest. The first version of the film was completed in 1945, but not released for various reasons. By the time the studio was getting ready to release, Bogart-and-Bacall had become a real-life thing and they wanted to increase her role and the couple’s screen time together. That scene was added, along with quite a few other changes, and it was released in '46. And that may be why the plot is so full of holes and questions - the stuff that got cut out so they could have more B&B might well have included some plot points. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/24 "2018-05-09T17:08:38Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > And that may be why the plot is so full of holes and questions - the stuff that got cut out so they could have more B&B might well have included some plot points. In particular, the screenwriters put Vivian into two scenes she’s not in in the book: the one at Joe Brody’s apartment, when Carol Lundgren kills him; and the one at the hideout with Eddie Mars’ wife. The last one isn’t actually so bad — it’s probably more plausible to have Vivian free Marlowe than Mona Mars, which is what happens in the book — but putting her at Joe Brody’s apartment doesn’t really make sense, since she shouldn’t be aware of anything concerning Geiger, Agnes or the dirty-books racket. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/25 "2018-05-11T18:57:12Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > A lot of the dialogue was invented for the film, most notably the horse-racing banter between Marlowe and Vivian. They were talking about horse racing? Boy, it sounded a whole lot more interesting than that! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/26 "2018-05-12T10:44:52Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > At least it was easy to work out that Lauren Bacall was _ **hot** _. > > 😉 Ain’t that the truth? Lauren Bacall as she was in _The Big Sleep_ and _To Have and Have Not_…_damn._ I don’t do celebrity crushes - I can count every one I’ve ever had on one hand without running out of fingers - but she’s one of them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732/27 "2018-05-12T11:01:03Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I like that you started this thread. I read the book many years ago and had to read it a few times again before I was sure I didn’t understand it all. I haven’t seen the film. From Bacall’s autobiography, _By Myself_ (p.121): > [@](#): > > One day Bogie came on the set [of _The Big Sleep_] and asked Howard [Hawks], “Who pushed Taylor off the pier?” Everything stopped. Howard, no one, had the answer. Taylor was the mystery chauffeur in the film. His disappearance was what brought Marlowe (Bogie) on the case originally. Howard sent a cable to Raymond Chandler asking him. _He_ didn’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-sleep-making-sense-of-the-plot/813732.md?page=1)