# The Big Twist in the original Star Wars--were people surprised? SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616 "2005-05-19T18:52:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/21 "2005-05-19T19:51:57Z")
And I had _all_ the trading cards. šŸ˜› šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/22 "2005-05-19T19:52:37Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I missed Jar-Jar Binksā€™ appearance in _The Empire Strikes Back_. He was Yodaā€™s manservant. In RotJ, he was the guy who yelled out, ā€œMe see itā€™s a twap!ā€ But, it was later edited out in favor of Admiral Fish Head saying it. Oh boy, that first weekend viewing of the movies really paid off. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/23 "2005-05-19T19:56:37Z")
I was also about ten when _Empire_ came out, and hell yeah, I was surprised. The flodmother didnā€™t come to the movies with us. When we got home, she asked me, "So, is it true? Is Darth Vader really Lukeā€™s father?" She had known for weeks but had been biting her tongue so my sister and I would be surprised. You know, for a mom, she could be pretty cool šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/24 "2005-05-19T19:59:33Z")
I read the novelization first. I was on a big family vacation in Florida with my mother, uncle and aunt, cousins, and another family who was good friends with us. The night I got the book at a beachside gift shop, everyone was in one room playing cards or something, and bookish geek that I am, I was alone in the adjoining hotel room devouring it. I got to The Scene, was totally shocked. I ran into the next room and breathlessly informed all of my relatives. Nobody cared. Story of my freakinā€™ lifeā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/25 "2005-05-19T20:16:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Really? I donā€™t recall ESB being called ā€œEpisode Five - The Empire Strikes Backā€ when it was first released in 1980. Nor do I recall Star Wars being renamed ā€œA New Hopeā€ back then either. Actually it goes back to episode 4. Obviously epside 4 was released without the episode 4 monicker originally. But during its initial release, the episode 4 was added. So for other than a couple of months, itā€™s always been episode 4, 5, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/26 "2005-05-19T20:27:22Z")
But it wasnā€™t until Fandom Menace was released that the big push to rename the movies began. Before then it was always _Star Wars_, _The Empire Strikes Back_, and _Return of the Jedi_. Now itā€™s a bunch of confusing ā€œEpisode 4, which was actually the first movie released, originally called _Star Wars_ but has now been illogically (and cumbersomely) renamed to _Star Wars Episode Four: A New Hope_, even though an entire generation or three always referred to it as just _Star Wars_ā€ crapola. Itā€™s just another example of Lucasā€™ inability to leave well-enough alone. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/27 "2005-05-19T20:30:44Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > But during its initial release, the episode 4 was added. So for other than a couple of months, itā€™s always been episode 4, 5, etc. Thatā€™s not quite right. ā€œEpisode IVā€ didnā€™t get added to the crawl until 1978, when _Star Wars_ was re-released, after the sequels were negotiated. ā€œA New Hopeā€ didnā€™t get added to the crawl until _Star Wars_ was first made available on videotape. (1981, 82, somewhere around there? Between ESB and ROTJ, anyway.) The crawl to _The Empire Strikes Back_ has always started with ā€œEPISODE V,ā€ **JohnT**. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/28 "2005-05-19T20:34:37Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > I read the novelization first. I was on a big family vacation in Florida with my mother, uncle and aunt, cousins, and another family who was good friends with us. The night I got the book at a beachside gift shop, everyone was in one room playing cards or something, and bookish geek that I am, I was alone in the adjoining hotel room devouring it. I got to The Scene, was totally shocked. I ran into the next room and breathlessly informed all of my relatives. > > Nobody cared. > > Story of my freakinā€™ lifeā€¦ That is almost _exactly_ my story (novel, Florida, cousins/aunt, etc.). My main question at the time is still unanswered: exactly when did Vader realize that he was Lukeā€™s father? Did he sense it while fighting him, or was it between Episodes 4 & 5, or did he come across the name someplace, orā€¦ lucky guess? Of course the look that Obi Wan gives Vader just before he allows himself to be killed may have tipped Vader off. I must admit Obi Wanā€™s affection for Luke (whom heā€™s known for a matter of days) becomes more understandable after the first trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/29 "2005-05-19T20:39:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Really? I donā€™t recall ESB being called ā€œEpisode Five - The Empire Strikes Backā€ when it was first released in 1980. Well, it was. > [@](#): > > Nor do I recall Star Wars being renamed ā€œA New Hopeā€ back then either. No, youā€™re right. That was in 1981. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/30 "2005-05-19T20:56:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > My main question at the time is still unanswered: exactly when did Vader realize that he was Lukeā€™s father? Did he sense it while fighting him, or was it between Episodes 4 & 5, or did he come across the name someplace, orā€¦ lucky guess? A little from column 1, a little from column 2. He sensed it during the Death Star raid, and afterwards the Rebellion was trumpeting its newest hero, a guy named Luke Skywalker, and he and Palpatine put two and two together. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/31 "2005-05-19T20:56:04Z")
> [@pinkfreud](#): > > There was no suggestion of this ā€œtwistā€ until the release of _The Empire Strikes Back_. In the original _Star Wars_, Obi-Wan said that Darth Vader had betrayed and murdered Lukeā€™s father. > > Sure, we were surprised. Except for those of us who read the review of _TESB_ in _Time_ magazine, which totally spilled the beans about the father/son relationship of Vader and Luke. I will never forgive _Time_ for that. It was the worst spoiler of all time, IMHO. I echo **pinkfreud**. Youā€™da thunk, if Obi-Wan was trying to keep Luke hidden, he might have, ah, lesse, changed the last name? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/32 "2005-05-19T21:03:18Z")
Of course we were surprised. At the time nobody thought that Lucas could be _that_ stupid. Weā€™ve since learned. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/33 "2005-05-19T21:08:20Z")
I was kinda surprised, not totally shocked, and might have guessed it was coming but didnā€™t really know. What really shocked me was that Leia was Lukeā€™s sister. I mean, cā€™mon, theyā€™d been almost romantic at one point. Shouldnā€™t the force have told him something about that? And more than a little surprised that Fozzy the Bear was the ultimate Jedi master. That one _really_ threw me. FTR, I was 14 going on 15 when the original Star Wars movie came out. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/34 "2005-05-19T21:31:28Z")
Shortly after the original SW came out (Whatever itā€™s called now), a friend of mine & I read a column by priest/author Andrew Greeley wherein he predicted the whole damn thing - not only that Darth Vader = Dark Father, but that Luke would somehow save/redeem him in the end. I was in graduate school. SW did not make much of an impression on me, but I do remember reading and discussing this. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/35 "2005-05-19T21:38:43Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > What really shocked me was that > > Leia was Lukeā€™s sister. I mean, cā€™mon, theyā€™d been almost romantic at one point. Shouldnā€™t the force have told him something about that? This one shocked me too, but for a different reason. I saw the first movie after the third had been released (Iā€™m the same age as the first movie, so it was kinda difficult for me to see them at the cinema), and I already knew everything about the Big Twist this thread is about, but I had no clue about this one. It came out of nowhere. Why hadnā€™t anyone mentioned it before? This meant that Darth Vader was Leiaā€™s father toobut no-one ever talked about that. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/36 "2005-05-19T21:43:45Z")
To Priceguy - excellent point - How come Luke has such issues with Vader being his father, but Leia could watch him destroy her whole planet, find out heā€™s her father, and then just go dancing around with EWOKS?!!! Well, I guess her mind was blown. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/37 "2005-05-19T21:44:40Z")
I was in line with my dad and brothers (it was a looooooong line), when some teenagers that had just got out of the previous showing drove by, and shouted out the car window: "Darth Vader is Lukeā€™s faaatherrrrr!! Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Haaaaaa . . . " My brother and I looked at each other, and then at our dad, and said ā€œWow.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/38 "2005-05-19T21:48:09Z")
> [@](#): > > No, youā€™re quite correct. It was the first movie, the one known, always and forevermore, as Star Wars. > > The introduction of ā€œepisode numbersā€ is, imho, as much an insult to the intelligence of the audience as the character of Jar-Jar Binks. The fact that they both occurred in the same movie is only fitting. Others have already pointed out that the episode numbering predates the prequels. The only reason that people referred to the prequels as Episode 1 or whatever is that there was a long gap between knowing it was coming out and learning the title, in which time we had to call it something. But youā€™re wrong on the first point, too. There is no possible interpretation by which you could say that the twist was in the first movie, since it was in _The Empire Strikes Back_. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/39 "2005-05-19T22:16:28Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > My brother and I were totally shocked. I remember discussing it with him (he was 14; I was 11). We decided Vader was lying. I, too, figured Vader was lying. Besides I was still reeling from the fact that Vader cut off Lukeā€™s hand! (which is much more intense for a 2nd grader). ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616/40 "2005-05-19T22:46:07Z")
I honestly canā€™t remember how I felt the very first time I saw Star Wars or ESB. ESB came out when I was 4, and I vaguely remember seeing it with my parents at the theater. Later when HBO played them both several times a day I watched the crap out of them. I do remember being scared of Vader when I saw RotJ on the big screen, because he was so big and loud. Anyway, I thought it was kinda dumb that Luke was Vaderā€™s son, but I liked that Luke didnā€™t turn to the Dark Side. Especially because Vader had just cut off his hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-big-twist-in-the-original-star-wars-were-people-surprised-spoilers/304616.md?page=3)