# The birth of my child and the death of my faith **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593 "2012-11-01T17:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/41 "2012-11-02T02:33:18Z")
> [@A\_Nested\_Thorn](#): > > I may try to speak with a minister, but I’ll have to find one that I can trust to not club me over the head with guilt or some such. Good suggestion. > [@A\_Nested\_Thorn](#): > > To clarify, my church doesn’t suggest that babies burn in Hell under any circumstances. My church is fairly progressive for, you know, a _church_… Plenty of religious people have struggled with the problem of evil over the history of Christianity and found answers to their satisfaction. Since you say that your church isn’t overbearing on the issue, chances are that they could offer you some ways of thinking about the issue that might give you some peace of mind. Honestly, though, the fact that you didn’t look to your faith community but instead came here, to a community that you know leans strongly irreligious, kind of suggests to me that you’ve reached a decision and are looking for validation. That’s perfectly fine; there’s nothing wrong with that. I only point it out because it might help you resolve your thinking if you’re clear in your own mind about what’s really motivating you. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/42 "2012-11-02T07:25:02Z")
Congratulations on the birth of your son (we will want pictures – just like we want pictures of cats)! Welcome to A\_Nested\_ThornSon, the world is more wonderful because you are in it. To your conundrum about God/hell, my suggestion is to go to the Source. Spend some time in prayer, ask for wisdom about not only being a good father but also about how you need to relate to God. Be specific – I don’t want my son to go to hell and I can’t see how You can be good and send him or anyone there, so please enlighten me (something like that). Not to be dismissive but you are not the first person who has come to Him with this kind of problem. I know you said you didn’t want to get guilted by a minister, so you may not want to go to someone in your home church. Can you pick another church in your denomination and go there for consoling? You may want to call before making an appointment and see if they have someone who is good with seekers – which is normally code for someone who has a theological problem. I’m a little different from many on this thread – I was raised an atheist, from a very hard atheistic family. I found faith in collage – I believe I would be a much lesser person without my faith – I know I would be less happy. You may find that you will be happier with faith than without – ask yourself which would make you personally feel happier – which is more important to you a commitment to a possible objective truth that you can not worship a God that could send someone to hell or a possibility that you will be present with your loved ones after you die along with a God who loves both you and them. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/43 "2012-11-02T09:57:29Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Then YOU give him a background of love, honesty, and clarity. Religion isn’t a reliable provider of any of them. Thread winner! > [@Lasciel](#): > > if your wife wants to go to church, and you don’t go, that can (not saying that it has to) make for some hard feelings and some mom vs dad choosing on the kid’s part, which is something that you don’t really want to get into. MMV and all that, but if the parents are intelligent and respectful towards each others’ beliefs - which they IMO _should_ be - this is IME not a necessary outcome. I’m atheist, my wife is moderately religious, and we’ve never had any issues we haven’t been able to resolve as loving and thinking adults. > [@Lasciel](#): > > As much as possible, you parents need to present a united front I disagree. Even small children - at least when they are old enough to actually ask the pertinent questions - are fully capable of understanding that “mommy believes there’s a God, but daddy don’t”. A loving and respectful explanation of why religion is a matter of personal choice and that other peoples’ beliefs should generally be respected is totally within the range of stuff that the child is able to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/44 "2012-11-02T10:53:28Z")
Instill the ideas of honor and compassion in him, & he will do fine. > [@](#): > > ``` > When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion. > ~~Abraham Lincoln, (attributed) > 16th president of US (1809 - 1865) > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/45 "2012-11-02T13:31:59Z")
I found true freedom when I dumped faith, and it was quite a relief to me. I raise my kids with the information they need to develop their own religious leanings. I did not take them to church until they were well past the overly-impressionable-small-child phase, and then I took them to a variety of places and exposed them to a variety of ideas. One kid is non-theistic and one has a vague and as yet under developed higher power leanings. We discuss the ideas without insulting the people who believe them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/46 "2012-11-02T13:39:17Z")
> [@Reepicheep](#): > > I found faith in collage One can do a lot with collage, but I’ve got to admit that the idea of faith in it has never crossed my mind. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/47 "2012-11-02T13:45:43Z")
> [@A\_Nested\_Thorn](#): > > Yeah, I should’ve elaborated on this. Hell is what pushed me over the edge, but even if there is no Hell–a concept I’d be more than happy to entertain–I still don’t know if I could _worship_ God again. If God exists, and he isn’t evil, he’s still not really caring either, so why bother. So I’m back in the same boat. I don’t see how you get to “he’s still not really caring either.” Suppose for a second that you’re God, and you’re deciding how to construct a universe with intelligent beings in it. ISTM that you can either allow your intelligent beings to do bad shit to each other, or you restrict or deny them free will. Choosing the former option doesn’t mean you don’t care, it just means that there are major drawbacks to the available options. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/48 "2012-11-02T14:26:05Z")
You may not really be undergoing a religious crisis, but rather just experiencing a syndrome common to new parents called “My Baby Is the Most Special Thing In The Universe, Nothing Bad Could Ever Possibly Happen To It!” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/49 "2012-11-02T14:55:51Z")
> [@A\_Nested\_Thorn](#): > > I looked at him and realized that I could no longer believe in a God who would allow him to burn in Hell forever, whatever the reason. I had been struggling with my faith since college for the usual reasons (the Problem of Evil and whatnot), but this was the last straw. This is exactly the way I feel. HOWEVER, do not make the mistake of thinking that Christian faiths know any more about the nature of God than you do as a new father. In fact, you have experienced unconditional love for your son, and your love is but a tiny fraction of the love God has for you (if you believe in a “personified” God). There IS no such thing as Hell. I’m positive about that. You don’t have to lose your faith, just throw out the stuff that no longer makes sense to you. Experience trumps doctrine every time. ALL doctrine was invented by human beings in an attempt to make sense of this world we’re in. Try out the Unitarian Church. You’ll be comfortable there. Trust me. Try it. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/50 "2012-11-02T15:22:12Z")
You need to talk to your pastor (or someone else that you trust that has been around the block faith wise a time or two). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/51 "2012-11-02T15:37:32Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > You need to talk to your pastor (or someone else that you trust that has been around the block faith wise a time or two). I doubt his pastor will willingly encourage the OP to walk away and never look back. Which, as I pointed out in Post #2, is the only correct option. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/52 "2012-11-02T16:49:21Z")
When my kids were young, they attended church with friends, primarily for the social aspects. As they grew old enough to think about what they heard in church they eventually approached me with questions about why I did not go. They are now 18 and 21 year old atheists. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/53 "2012-11-02T18:36:15Z")
You could always cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad stuff. Tell him there’s a heaven, but no hell. Personally I’d just go with being atheist. You really don’t miss anything. Churches are like community centers, you’re getting fulfilled because you’re with like-minded people. Find him a hobby, let him join a sport, fill that hole with something else ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/54 "2012-11-02T18:39:40Z")
It’s possible to believe in a God, without believing in a particular religion. That’s pretty much the way I feel. I don’t think you can put God into a box. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/55 "2012-11-02T19:31:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > \ I don’t think you can put God into a box. Well, you can\*, technically, but you corrupt the experiment when you open the box to look inside \*It helps if you also put in a Cesium atom, and some poison as well… ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/56 "2012-11-02T19:43:37Z")
Many of us look back at our “coming out” from religion as a quantum leap forward. It’s a big step to only believe in things that make sense to us, rather than things we were taught that don’t make sense. “Losing your faith” can be a positive step in the direction of reason and logic and happiness. It’s your life, and you have the right to define it however you wish. Nobody has the right to take that away from you. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/57 "2012-11-02T20:49:52Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Encourage him to be a scientist. Not only will he improve the world for everyone more than any church ever did… Unless he grows up to be [the Thomas Midgley of his generation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/58 "2012-11-03T22:53:23Z")
If UU doesn’t fit (and it might or might not) a liberal Christian like the UCC might be a better fit. You might want to take a religion quiz on the internet…this one actually isn’t bad. [www.beliefnet.com](http://www.beliefnet.com) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/59 "2012-11-04T00:35:40Z")
As I type this I’m sitting on the couch enjoying a quiet evening with my Small Girl. Se just turned 7. She’s a happy, funny, smart, delightful little kid, kind to others and healthy and safe. She’s never been exposed to a religion or religious instruction. Doesn’t seem to be hurting her any. Nobody needs a church. Just my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593/60 "2012-11-04T03:06:40Z")
I’m raising two kids in a country which couldn’t be any less like the 1960s Utah community I grew up. Even if I wanted to try to recreate it, I couldn’t. They’ll do fine. Kids need loving, involved parents much more that the belief in a Flying Spaghetti Monster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-birth-of-my-child-and-the-death-of-my-faith/639593.md?page=4)