# The Bishop is a drunkard. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457 "2014-12-29T18:59:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/21 "2014-12-30T16:46:46Z")
Because this ain’t the Romans we’re talking about here. Confession is done _en masse_ during the service. I am not sure I’d call the forgiveness offered by the Priest to be “Absolution” either. Anywhoo, there ain’t no dark cobwebby telephone booth with a kneeler and the stench of a thousand thousand sinners around ya. It’s the Episcopal Church. 🙂 \<------- 5 year convert. Oh, and she should be arrested and prosecuted without the slightest deference given to her office. She killed a person with her car while drunk. Away to the pokey she ought to go. Period. Removing her from her office is a good idea and I suspect is already underway. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/22 "2014-12-30T17:02:12Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Because this ain’t the Romans we’re talking about here. > > Confession is done _en masse_ during the service. I am not sure I’d call the forgiveness offered by the Priest to be “Absolution” either. > > Anywhoo, there ain’t no dark cobwebby telephone booth with a kneeler and the stench of a thousand thousand sinners around ya. It’s the Episcopal Church. > > 🙂 > > \<------- 5 year convert. > > Oh, and she should be arrested and prosecuted without the slightest deference given to her office. She killed a person with her car while drunk. Away to the pokey she ought to go. Period. Removing her from her office is a good idea and I suspect is already underway. Um, private confession is available in the Episcopal Church for anyone who wants it, although unfortunately not enough people take advantage of the sacrament. I’ve done private confessions to my confessor many times. Also, confessing your sins to a priest does _not_ mean that you don’t have to face temporal punishment for what you did wrong. In fact, in many cases (certainly this one) I’d expect that any confessor worth their salt would tell you “if you’re genuinely repentant, go and face the consequences for what you did.” Confession and repentance is meant to save us from hell, not from a prison term. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/23 "2014-12-30T17:09:10Z")
Does the Episcopal church defrock? I knew someone who was an Episcopal seminarian, and from what I understood, once you were ordained, you were ordained forever, but it is possible to screw up bad enough that you could make yourself unemployable as a priest of bishop. Ordained people in the Episcopal church apply for jobs just like lay people-- if there is an opening for a priest as a rector, or an a functionary in a diocese office some place, the priest has to apply just like anyone. Being ordained might be a criteria, just like having a certain kind of degree, or knowing a certain language, or being a citizen might be a criteria for another job. The church has “non-stipendiary” priests, which are people who have been ordained, but for whatever reason, don’t work in a job that requires a priest. There was a travel agent in the town where I went to high school who was an ordained Episcopal priest. I have no idea why he didn’t work as one. I don’t think he was a felon, because I’m pretty sure that there are some strict rules for getting a license to issue plane tickets, even years ago, before 9/11. Those people can still give sermons, or do the Eucharist. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/24 "2014-12-30T17:13:28Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Um, private confession is available in the Episcopal Church for anyone who wants it, although unfortunately not enough people take advantage of the sacrament. I’ve done private confessions to my confessor many times. I’ve been to Episcopal services, and I have a vague recollection of being told that if you miss the confession part of the service, you aren’t supposed to take communion, so it is important. I believe you that there is private confession, though-- my friend who was a seminarian said that she and all her fellow priests-to-be had to go at least once, because if they were going to receive private confessions, they needed to experience it from the other end. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/25 "2014-12-30T17:21:46Z")
Thank you, **Hector\_St\_Clare** , for the education. I learn, I learn, I love what I am learning in this Church. 🙂 Having said **that** , I would be mighty dismayed to find out that a private confession would result in the insistence on the part of the Priest- and Church overall-that she NOT surrender to the police. Seems she wouldn’t get very far if she got it into her head to [seek sanctuary within a church.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2006/08/can_criminals_hide_in_church.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/26 "2014-12-30T17:39:24Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Someone needs to flog the bishop. I’m on it! I knew it would be a Subaru before I even clicked the link. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/27 "2014-12-30T18:45:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh, now you’re blaming the victim! Bishop takes pawn? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/28 "2014-12-30T19:14:53Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Thank you, **Hector\_St\_Clare** , for the education. I learn, I learn, I love what I am learning in this Church. 🙂 > > Having said **that** , I would be mighty dismayed to find out that a private confession would result in the insistence on the part of the Priest- and Church overall-that she NOT surrender to the police. There’s no reason that it should. The confession issue might arise if the prosecution seeks to admit in evidence, as an admission against interest, the contents of of her private confession. That conversation should certainly be privileged and inadmissible but should not otherwise impede her surrender or prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/29 "2014-12-30T21:30:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > She did return after 20 minutes, so maybe she won’t get convicted for a hit and run, but if she’s convicted of vehicular homicide that won’t make much difference. > > Sorry, can’t resist: Maybe she was driving diagonally Or[spoiler]Maybe she found G-d. :rolleyes: Now _that’s_ a sorry, can’t resist. [/spoiler] > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > In high school, a classmate hit and killed a kid on a bike. The authorities went to great lengths to state and publicize that it was absolutely, 100% not the driver’s fault - but it still destroyed him. > > I don’t want to get into a biker war, but I’ve personally had to make extreme emergency maneuvers not to hit some schmuck who believed his $4,000 Trek entitled him to special privileges on the road. > > If in this case, the rider contributed to the accident, it will be much different than if Madame Bishop simply plowed into him in his right-of-way. Even _if_ there’s surveillance video that shows him making a 90° turn 3’ in front of her car she didn’t stop to render aid &/or exchange info. She committed a crime by fleeing. The photo shows some damage to the hood & major damage to the windshield, even if she were deaf & didn’t hear the impact, there’s no way you don’t notice that much damage to a windshield while in a car. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/30 "2014-12-30T22:15:25Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > 1. She fled the scene and had to be chased by cyclists. Sadly, this is a tactic of both the guilty \*and \*the drunk. Isn’t it also the tactic of someone who has panicked? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/31 "2014-12-30T22:27:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Isn’t it also the tactic of someone who has panicked? “I panicked” is often an excuse given, yes. Maybe sometimes it is true. Can’t say that from a moral or vehicular responsibility level it is much improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/32 "2014-12-30T23:39:39Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Unless they can put the blame squarely on the cyclist (and such things do happen), I’d say her tenure as bishop is pretty well finished. Long time, no see. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/33 "2014-12-31T02:21:39Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > “I panicked” is often an excuse given, yes. Maybe sometimes it is true. > > Can’t say that from a moral or vehicular responsibility level it is much improvement. Well, let’s look at it without emotion. 1-She was at fault for the initial collision. She was sober. Then she left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. 2-She was at fault for the initial collision. She was not sober. Then she left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. 3-She was not at fault for the initial collision. She was sober. She panicked and left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. 4-She was not at fault for the initial collision. She was not sober. She panicked and left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. Okay. Which of those is “tactic used by the guilty”? It’s too soon in the case to be making judgements, isn’t it? Have the police or the prosecution released results of a drug test or BAC test? Has the accident reconstruction team concluded its investigation? Do you know all the details yet? Driving while impaired is wrong, of course. So is leaving the scene of an accident. But just because one commits the latter offense does not automatically mean one has committed the former. By the way, speaking of emotional response, what’s with the cycling group “demanding the police hold her accountable”? The police do not decide guilt; that’s for the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/34 "2014-12-31T02:40:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, speaking of emotional response, what’s with the cycling group “demanding the police hold her accountable”? The police do not decide guilt; that’s for the courts. Oh, would that this thought process be present in the threads here on The Dope, and in the court of Public Opinion, concerning the protests sweeping the United States over police actions and consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/35 "2014-12-31T13:52:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, let’s look at it without emotion. OK, but first let me point out that the reason she returned was because some other cyclists chased her down. Not because she had a magical change of heart. > [@](#): > > 1-She was at fault for the initial collision. She was sober. Then she left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. Shows poor moral character to not remain on the scene of a severe accident. > [@](#): > > 2-She was at fault for the initial collision. She was not sober. Then she left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. Shows impairment to the point of not noticing she just hit a cyclist despite the massive damage to her windshield. > [@](#): > > 3-She was not at fault for the initial collision. She was sober. She panicked and left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. Shows poor moral character to not remain on the scene of a severe accident. > [@](#): > > 4-She was not at fault for the initial collision. She was not sober. She panicked and left the scene of the accident and returned twenty minutes later. Least likely scenario. > [@](#): > > Okay. Which of those is “tactic used by the guilty”? It’s too soon in the case to be making judgements, isn’t it? Have the police or the prosecution released results of a drug test or BAC test? Has the accident reconstruction team concluded its investigation? Do you know all the details yet? I’ve already noted my reasons for suspecting she was DUI. > [@](#): > > Driving while impaired is wrong, of course. So is leaving the scene of an accident. But just because one commits the latter offense does not automatically mean one has committed the former. > > By the way, speaking of emotional response, what’s with the cycling group “demanding the police hold her accountable”? The police do not decide guilt; that’s for the courts. You realize that if the police feel like it, they can prevent the courts from ever even seeing the case, right? You realize if the police decide not to bother with BA testing that the courts will never see the case, right? You think that never happens? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/36 "2014-12-31T14:21:11Z")
I wonder if they’ll arrest her for “drunken disorderly”? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/37 "2014-12-31T15:05:33Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > OK, but first let me point out that the reason she returned was because some other cyclists chased her down. Not because she had a magical change of heart. I realize that an automobile such as the one she was driving is likely capable of far outpacing any bicycle. > [@](#): > > Shows poor moral character to not remain on the scene of a severe accident. That’s one explanation. Another is panic. > [@](#): > > Shows impairment to the point of not noticing she just hit a cyclist despite the massive damage to her windshield. Maybe. Or it shows panic. > [@](#): > > Shows poor moral character to not remain on the scene of a severe accident. Or it shows panic. > [@](#): > > Least likely scenario. I said it was possible, not likely. > [@](#): > > I’ve already noted my reasons for suspecting she was DUI. Your reasons can show either impairment or panic. > [@](#): > > You realize that if the police feel like it, they can prevent the courts from ever even seeing the case, right? Not once the DA’s office got hold of it. At least not without committing some crimes themselves. > [@](#): > > You realize if the police decide not to bother with BA testing that the courts will never see the case, right? You think that never happens? Well, I don’t tend to go for paranoid fantasies, but, in cases like this, there’s a procedure to be followed and it would be quite unlikely that the procedure isn’t followed. Note that I did not say impossible, merely unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/38 "2014-12-31T16:18:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I realize that an automobile such as the one she was driving is likely capable of far outpacing any bicycle. On a free run, maybe. But in reality there are these things called stoplights and stop signs that can slow down the pace of a car. Also, read the article I quoted. > [@](#): > > That’s one explanation. Another is panic. > > Maybe. Or it shows panic. > > Or it shows panic. If your first instinct of panic is to flee when you are not the injured or threatened party you are getting no sympathy from me. > [@](#): > > Not once the DA’s office got hold of it. At least not without committing some crimes themselves. And if they don’t bother to gather the evidence so the DA never sees it? What then? > [@](#): > > Well, I don’t tend to go for paranoid fantasies, but, in cases like this, there’s a procedure to be followed and it would be quite unlikely that the procedure isn’t followed. Note that I did not say impossible, merely unlikely. It is amazing how proud you are of your naïveté. BTW the way, it is not ‘paranoid fantasy’. Police frequently don’t follow procedure, and with bike-and-car collisions (where up to half of the serious collisions are hit-and-run). Need examples? [http://bicycleaustin.info/justice/details.html#jaywilliams](http://bicycleaustin.info/justice/details.html#jaywilliams) [http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/da-hit-and-run-suspect-won-t-face-felony-because-of-job](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/da-hit-and-run-suspect-won-t-face-felony-because-of-job) [http://www.timesargus.com/article/20140815/THISJUSTIN/708159952](http://www.timesargus.com/article/20140815/THISJUSTIN/708159952) [http://isolatecyclist.bostonbiker.org/2011/07/11/police-excuses-for-blaming-cyclists/](http://isolatecyclist.bostonbiker.org/2011/07/11/police-excuses-for-blaming-cyclists/) > **[Homepage - Streetsblog New York City](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/)** > > Covering the fight for livable streets and the battle against car dependency. [http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/thrown-under-the-bus-police-blame-a-78-year-old-cyclist-for-his-own-death/Content?oid=2949471](http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/thrown-under-the-bus-police-blame-a-78-year-old-cyclist-for-his-own-death/Content?oid=2949471) > **[Blaming The Victim | Bicycle Law](https://www.bicyclelaw.com/blaming-the-victim/)** > > Picture this: A pedestrian is standing on the curb, waiting for the light to change. The light changes, and the pedestrian steps out into the crosswalk and begins crossing the street. Before the pedestrian can reach he other side, a motorist runs the... ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/39 "2014-12-31T17:07:04Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![pojimba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@pojimba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pojimba)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/40 "2015-01-01T02:24:18Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Long time, no see. lol [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457.md?page=3)