# The Bishop is a drunkard. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457 "2014-12-29T18:59:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/41 "2015-01-01T17:46:00Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > 1. She fled the scene and had to be chased by cyclists. Sadly, this is a tactic of both the guilty \*and \*the drunk. Many DUI drivers flee the scene and turn themselves in later after they’ve sobered up as the penalties and pursuits for drunk driving are much worse than for hitting a cyclist or pedestrian while sober (in fact there are very few cases of sober drivers being convicted of killing cyclists or pedestrians). Even were she sober the fact that she fled the scene despite having to realize what had happened makes her a bad person. I’ll leave it up to others whether driving drunk or to arrogant/cowardly/disdainful to stop and render aid. Despite **Monty** ’s argument that it could have been panic, [this report](https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/12/29/witness-says-car-left-scene-of-bike-crash-for-45-not-20-minutes/)doesn’t look good for the bishop. > [@](#): > > Witness says car left scene of bike crash for 45, not 20, minutes > > Police refuse to release report on accident, saying it could jeopardize their investigation. Car in crash has same vehicle tag number that was recorded in her 2010 DUI arrest. > > The station wagon with the smashed windshield that drove away from Saturday’s fatal Roland Avenue bike crash was gone for close to 45 minutes – not the reported 20 – before returning to the scene, according to a reliable witness interviewed by The Brew. > > . . . > > Also locked tight and quiet was the gated complex, Elkridge Estates at the north end of Roland Avenue. > > Cyclist Moncure Lyon said he had followed the green Subaru there immediately after the crash in hopes of getting the license plate and was told by a security guard to leave. > > Lyon posted an account of what happened on the website Bikemore as “Fellow bikerider.” Tonight he confirmed his account in a phone interview with The Brew: > > “I was one of the first to arrive at the incident – returning from a ride up Lake ave and onto Roland. Calls were immediately made to 911. > > “I checked Mr. Palermo several times for a pulse and to check breathing – to no avail. Remained at the scene until it was secured by the police and walked my bike across the median strip to thank one of the gentlemen who was early at the scene. > > “He was in a conversation with another biker and they immediately indicated that they believe the car that hit Mr. Palermo had just driven past. They had the make and model, but not the license. > > “I Caught the Car at the Light” > > “Immediately I rode in the direction they had indicated and I caught the car at the light at Lake [Avenue]. There was no question in my mind after viewing the damaged windshield that this was the car. > > “I asked the driver if she was all right as the light changed and she drove straight ahead down the road that dead ends at Elkridge Estates, a gated apartment complex with a gatehouse guard and swinging gates to stop traffic in and out. > > “I was able to get the first four numbers of the plate and immediately went after her. I was stopped by the guard and indicated that there had been a potentially fatal hit-and-run and I believed the car with the smashed windshield was involved and needed to find it. A postal service delivery man assisted me with directions and he also helped. > > “In attempting to ride down the apt. road closest to the gatehouse I was stopped by the security guard who said I could not be riding in the complex and that the car has just left the complex. She had not stopped the car nor gotten the license number so I rode back up the hill to the light at Lake and saw the driver talking to a policeman. I rode up to them and, without anything else to say, thanked her for returning to the scene.” So according to this account, she drove by the scene she had already fled, the police where there and again, she didn’t stop. The cyclist chased her down, she went into her gated community and must have figured out that the game was up. She does return, but it’s 45 minutes later. My WAG is that it’s not a DUI or the police would have already charged her with that. However, if the 45-minute timing is right, the fact that she had not stopped the second time, went back to her home first and then returned only after she had been tracked down doesn’t look good. Whatever it was, it was not momentary panic. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/42 "2015-01-01T21:15:55Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Many DUI drivers flee the scene and turn themselves in later after they’ve sobered up as the penalties and pursuits for drunk driving are much worse than for hitting a cyclist or pedestrian while sober (in fact there are very few cases of sober drivers being convicted of killing cyclists or pedestrians). > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > unfortunately not enough people take advantage of the sacrament. One way of taking advantage of the sacrament would be to hand one’s driver’s license to a bystander, say “This is horrible, I need a drink,” then flee to the church and guzzle down an uncertain quantity of sacramental wine, and then return to the scene and claim that the inebriation only took place after the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/43 "2015-01-01T21:29:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, speaking of emotional response, what’s with the cycling group “demanding the police hold her accountable”? The police do not decide guilt; that’s for the courts. But police investigate and make arrests. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/44 "2015-01-01T21:32:56Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > If your first instinct of panic is to flee when you are not the injured or threatened party you are getting no sympathy from me. Right. I mean, it seems pretty clear she had some kind of panic. So what? That’s no excuse for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/45 "2015-01-01T22:17:13Z")
Maybe she needed to find a place to dump the booze bottles that were in her car? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/46 "2015-01-01T23:16:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > One way of taking advantage of the sacrament would be to hand one’s driver’s license to a bystander, say “This is horrible, I need a drink,” then flee to the church and guzzle down an uncertain quantity of sacramental wine, and then return to the scene and claim that the inebriation only took place after the incident. Speaking of sacramental wine - did the Daily News have to run a picture with eight carafes of the stuff in front of her? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/47 "2015-01-02T00:38:49Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Despite **Monty** ’s argument that it could have been panic, What I did was simply point out that jumping to conclusions is not the way to go. I pointed out that one possibility is that the woman panicked. I pointed out that panic is one of the things that her actions could have indicated. Did you not see where I pointed out that the panic reaction does not automatically indicate she was driving impaired? Did you and Misc. not see where I said that it’s wrong to leave the scene, where I said it’s wrong to drive while impaired? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/48 "2015-01-02T00:45:22Z")
p.s. If she was not at fault for the initial incident (the collision with the bike rider), was sober at the time, and had not left the scene, she likely could have been vindicated by the accident investigation. What she did though–leaving the scene of a fatal accident–is, of course, a crime. Doesn’t mean she was drunk when she did it. Panic, not to mention stupidity, could very well have been the reason for the flight. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/49 "2015-01-02T03:12:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I vaguely recall some rule that in the Church of England a bishop could not be defrocked. Did the Episcopalians not retain that? There’s two separate statuses at play. A bishop is an ordained position, like a priest. There is likely a mechanism for declaring a bishop is no longer a bishop, as a matter of ordained status (“defrocking”) but it would likely be very rarely done. But there’s also the position of suffragan bishop within the hierarchy of the diocese. That is more akin to a type of employment rather than ordained status, and an occupant of that position can likely be removed much more easily than trying to remove their status as a bishop. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/50 "2015-01-02T12:16:12Z")
Seems like an opportunity to address the prison chaplain shortage and save on housing costs at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/51 "2015-01-02T13:58:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > p.s. If she was not at fault for the initial incident (the collision with the bike rider), was sober at the time, and had not left the scene, sh\*\*e likely could have been vindicated by the accident investigation. \*\*What she did though–leaving the scene of a fatal accident–is, of course, a crime. Doesn’t mean she was drunk when she did it. Panic, not to mention stupidity, could very well have been the reason for the flight. My emphasis. And you know this, exactly how? See, you are just making shit up and jumping to conclusions, the very same thing you are accusing **Mr. Miskatonic** of doing. What’s more, it only took about five minutes of googling to get the basic information which undermines the minor point you keep trying to make, while cherry-picking the parts of the story that fit your narrative. Sloppy thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/52 "2015-01-02T15:07:00Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > My emphasis. > > And you know this, exactly how? See, you are just making shit up and jumping to conclusions, the very same thing you are accusing **Mr. Miskatonic** of doing. > > What’s more, it only took about five minutes of googling to get the basic information which undermines the minor point you keep trying to make, while cherry-picking the parts of the story that fit your narrative. Sloppy thinking. You’re a lying sack of crap. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/53 "2015-01-02T16:52:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re a lying sack of crap. That’s all you’ve got? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/54 "2015-01-02T17:29:16Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re a lying sack of crap. > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > That’s all you’ve got? Take it outside, guys. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/55 "2015-01-02T17:45:19Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Take it outside, guys. I wonder how well the average guy could fight. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/56 "2015-01-03T16:07:02Z")
Hey, kids, let’s have a pillow fight! YAY! Nah, let’s have a sack of crap fight. BOO! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/57 "2015-01-03T16:34:29Z")
I’m Episcopalian. She should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of her status as bishop. It is slightly better for her that she returned (be it after 20 minutes or 45) than that the police had to figure out who she was and come after her with handcuffs out, but only slightly. Episcopal clergy can be defrocked (technically “deposed”), that is, fully removed from the priesthood, either by resignation or conviction in an ecclesiastical trial. It is not so under Episcopal canon law that “once a priest, always a priest.” I was involved in one such trial a few years ago, for an Episcopal priest who’d treated his parish’s checking account as his own personal piggy bank. He did not appear for the trial. A trial panel of three (one priest and two laypeople) recommended to the bishop that he be deposed, and the bishop accepted that recommendation. The priest could have appealed the deposition to an appellate panel under canon law, but chose not to. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/58 "2015-01-03T23:12:09Z")
Wow, Cook’s BAC in the first incident (not accident) was 0.27. That’s seriously shit-faced. She had also puked on herself, so it’s likely some of the alcohol she consumed never made into her bloodstream. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/59 "2015-01-04T04:12:42Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Wow, Cook’s BAC in the first incident (not accident) was 0.27. That’s seriously shit-faced. She had also puked on herself, so it’s likely some of the alcohol she consumed never made into her bloodstream. On the positive side, I’ve seen absolutely zero evidence she had shat her pants. So there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457/60 "2015-01-04T13:05:19Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > On the positive side, I’ve seen absolutely zero evidence she had shat her pants. So there’s that. One of the reasons people would move to big cities was to escape the busybodies of small places. I’ve heard them described as “one mistake” towns, where you are defined by whatever mistake you may have made. “Well, you know Joan, the one who got knocked up?” When Joan is already a grandmother. Or Bob, the guy whose wife left him. Thanks to magic of google, we can enjoy the notoriety of small towns anywhere we go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bishop-is-a-drunkard/708457.md?page=4)