# The bizarre case of Johnny Gosch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313 "2006-09-03T21:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/1 "2006-09-03T21:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > On Sunday, September 5, 1982, in the affluent suburb of West Des Moines, Johnny Gosch left home for his paper route before dawn. Though it was customary for Johnny to wake his father to help with the route, the boy took only the family dog, Gretchen, with him that morning. Other paper carriers for The Des Moines Register would later report having seen Gosch at the paper drop, picking up his newspapers. It was the last sighting of Johnny Gosch that can be corroborated by multiple witnesses. Gosch was last seen wearing blue rubber thong sandals, warm up exercise pants, and a white sweatshirt reading “Kim’s Academy” on the back. > > In February, 1999, Noreen Gosch testified in Omaha Federal Court, during a case involving Lawrence E. King, Jr. and the Franklin Credit Union scandal, that her son had visited her in 1997. > > By Noreen Gosch’s account, she was awakened one night in March, 1997 by a knock at her apartment door. Waiting outside was Johnny Gosch, now approximately 27 years old, accompanied by a man she had never seen before. The other man never identified himself, and never spoke, but seemed nervous and serious. Johnny divulged that his had been a targeted, not random, abduction, in 1982. His captors had forced him into a decade of child sex-slavery. Johnny explained that as his survival was a potential security breach for the conspiracy, he was currently, and probably permanently, in hiding, and would likely never see her again. Johnny and the unidentified man left the apartment. After this visit, Noreen Gosch finally turned off her porch light. > > On September 1, 2006, CNN reported that Gosch’s mother found two photographs left at her front door, which she posted on her website. One photo apparently shows her son and two other boys bound and gagged. 1st photo The second photo appears to show 12-year-old Johnny Gosch with his mouth gagged, his hands and feet tied, and an apparent human brand on his shoulder. The image has a red arrow pointing to his shoulder labeled “The Brand”. According to his mother, the boy in the second photo is Johnny, wearing the same sweatpants as the time he disappeared. (It is unclear who labeled the boy’s shoulder in this photo.) > > Lt. Jeff Miller of the West Des Moines police indicates that his department is investigating the photographs. The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children is also investigating to see if they can identify the other two boys in the first photograph > **[Disappearance of Johnny Gosch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch#2006_Photos)** > > John David Gosch (November 12, 1969 – disappeared September 5, 1982) was a paperboy in West Des Moines, Iowa, United States, who disappeared between 6 and 7 a.m. on September 5, 1982. He is presumed to have been kidnapped. Gosch's picture was among the first to be featured on milk cartons as part of a campaign to find missing children. As of 2026\[update\], there have been no arrests made; the case is now considered cold but remains open. Gosch's mother, Noreen, claimed that he escaped from his c... I find this hard to believe, but the photo tell it’s own story Some have said that high ranking politicans have been involved in the kidnapping and that the traces also goes to the White House What’s to think ? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/2 "2006-09-03T21:39:00Z")
Why did she not report his appearance immediately? Why is he ‘approximately’ 27 years old? If he is her son she knows exactly how old he is. What evidence does she have to support this belief? --\* Noreen Gosch, in her book Why Johnny Can’t Come Home and on her website [johnnygosch.com](http://johnnygosch.com), continues to assert that her son is alive and in hiding, and to publicize the notion that an international government conspiracy of Satanists, pedophiles, and pornographers is behind the disappearance of the young paperboy from West Des Moines.\* Sounds like a great big load of horseshit to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/3 "2006-09-03T21:48:57Z")
I suspect that the poor woman has been burdened with more troubles than she can bear, & has developed…_problems_. I’m sorry for loss, & her terrible suffering, but I do not believe the White House is involved. And _that’s_ from a guy who believes that our current Administration has done many terrible things. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/4 "2006-09-03T21:49:57Z")
[This](http://crimeblog.us/?p=80) fellow has some interesting takes on the recent happenings in regards to this case. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/5 "2006-09-03T22:57:16Z")
There is a photo allegedly taken at the time of the kidnapping that is under investigation. And that’s all there appears to be. > [@Wildfire\*\*MM](#): > > Some have said that high ranking politicans have been involved in the kidnapping and that the traces also goes to the White House You know, if you go through the express checkout at the supermarket things move faster and you’re not tempted to browse through the tabloids. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/6 "2006-09-04T00:14:58Z")
I like \*\*Contrapuntal’\*\*s post better than what I was going to say, Bosda’s too, but I’ll say it anyway: _Someone_ took Johnny Gosch. \*Someone \* probably did evil stuff (and IMO more than likely killed him). If this evil SOB "_someone"_ took a few pictures of Johnny – and gets his jollys from torturing the Mom after all these years (or John Karr-like thinks he’s “helping” her in bizarro-psycho land) – it is sick but actually less surprising/sick than doing what he did in the first place. Let me build on other’s posts and say though : If my boy was snatched and I had, rightly or wrongly, convinced myself he was still alive - I can see dreaming this up as a way to bring publicity to the case or Getting a fuzzy photo of a tied up kid, by A-hole pranksters saying I am 100% sure it is my kid… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/7 "2006-09-04T01:13:48Z")
I think George Bush kidnapped Johnny, and borrowed a jet from his ANGuard days to fly up and do it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/8 "2006-09-04T03:55:02Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] Some have said that high ranking politicans have been involved in the kidnapping and that the traces also goes to the White House. [/QUOTE] Wow, I’m impressed! I love conspiracy theories much more than the next guy but tracing it back to the White House is a farther conceptual leap than I would expect. And which administration would this be, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, or Bush Jr? Or are we suspecting some member of the household staff who has been there the past 24 years? The smart money says the poor kid was raped and murdered, though not necessarily in that order, within 24 hours of his abduction. That’s how these things go in the vast majority of cases. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/9 "2006-09-04T13:56:17Z")
The promotion of conspiracy theories in which well-known political figures are deeply involved in sordid, usually sexual, abuses of innocents have numerous antecedents. Although I hadn’t seen this particular story before, it is similar in to that described by Cathy O’Brien in her book [“Trance Formation of America”](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966016548?v=glance), and likewise appears to have some similairities to the stories of David Icke (but, sadly, without Icke’s shape-shifting alien lizards). Common features of these stories are vast conspiracies in which well-known public figures engage in all sort of deviant practices, usually in groups, so often and with such single-mindedness and enthusasm that one has to wonder how they ever get any work done at all. The stories seem to represent an almost medieval sense of fear and suspicion of those in a position of rule over others, and seem to be a modern update of the witchcraft theme of many fairy tales. They may be entertaining and satisfyingly scary to contemplate, but as with all such conspiracies, the one unsurmountable problem is that so many people must be involved that it would simply be impossible to maintain any sort of cover-up of these activities. Although, as I said, I hadn’t heard of this case before the OP posted it, among the things that make it immediately questionable are the vague nature of the story, particularly the boy’s supposed brief reappearance (what would be the point, and why did the mother only report it two years later?) Likewise, what would be the point of leaving photographs from the kidnapping at her door more than 15 years after the fact? Lastly, nearly all the reported facts of the case seem to be coming solely from the mother herself. So, although her son may very well have disappeared in 1982 as reported, that he was kidnapped to be a sex slave for some high political muckety-muck seems unlikely in the extreme. As to why people might make up these kinds of stories, well, they always seem to end up as web sites promoting books, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/10 "2006-09-05T02:42:33Z")
We were discussing this case at work the other day with some of the locals who were around at the time of the incident, what with the new pictures showing up. One of my co-workers was actually a paperboy at the same time as this incident, with a route very close to Gosch’s, and told me that there was a second paperboy who disappeared shortly after Johnny Gosch. However, his case was never as sensational. I can’t remember the name now, does someone know more about this? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/11 "2006-09-05T02:58:01Z")
I’ve never even heard of this case before, but I just wanted to say that those pictures scare the shit out of me. ---
**Author:** ![sezwho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@sezwho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sezwho)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/12 "2006-09-05T03:11:13Z")
I was in high school and lived approximately three blocks from where Johnny picked up his papers (and was supposedly grabbed there). This case is so strange. I’ve followed it for years. The weird part is that it just never seems to go away. Just when it gets out of mind, some new info comes out of the woodwork. I have to agree with the previous poster. Those pictures scared the crap out of me also. I had two younger brothers at the time, not much older than Gosch. I have a seven year old son now. I can’t blame the mother and some of her strange behavior. I don’t think I would ever be right again if this happened to one of my family. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/13 "2006-09-05T03:42:07Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] One of my co-workers was actually a paperboy at the same time as this incident, with a route very close to Gosch’s, and told me that there was a second paperboy who disappeared shortly after Johnny Gosch. However, his case was never as sensational. I can’t remember the name now, does someone know more about this? [/QUOTE] [Eugene Martin](http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/8dmia.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/14 "2006-09-05T04:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] Some have said that high ranking politicans have been involved in the kidnapping and that the traces also goes to the White House [/QUOTE] I’m going to say this slowly: Not. Everything. Has. To. Do. With. The. President. Of. The. United. States. Of. America. Who are these “some”, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/15 "2006-09-05T04:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] I’m going to say this slowly: Not. Everything. Has. To. Do. With. The. President. Of. The. United. States. Of. America. Who are these “some”, anyway? [/QUOTE] I actually read some of the links provided. The link to the White House involves “reporter” Jeff Gannon, who is apparantly a gay prostitute, and who somehow managed to get into the press room of the WH on several occasions. Which makes for a much juicier story, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/16 "2006-09-05T05:36:26Z")
A good conspiracy theory should involve aliens or demons. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/17 "2006-09-05T14:33:14Z")
I read about this case on another message board where Carl Rove was suspected to be involved ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/18 "2006-09-05T14:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] A good conspiracy theory should involve aliens or demons. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] I read about this case on another message board where Carl Rove was suspected to be involved [/QUOTE] It seems you’re in luck, Larry. (Oh, and Wildfire, it’s _K_arl Rove). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/19 "2006-09-05T15:41:54Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] I read about this case on another message board where Carl Rove was suspected to be involved [/QUOTE] What was he doing in 1982? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/20 "2006-09-05T19:44:34Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] What was he doing in 1982? [/QUOTE] Kidnapping 12 year olds in Iowa and holding the as sex slaves. Haven’t you been paying attention? (just teasing of course) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313.md?page=2)