# The bizarre case of Johnny Gosch **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313 "2006-09-03T21:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/21 "2006-09-05T21:36:33Z")
Points to recall: 1. Conspiracy theories about widespread Satanic cults abducting and molesting kids have been circulating for decades. All have proved bogus in the end. The total number of Satan worshippers in the USA has always been trivially small ( \< 10,000 according to Michael Shermer). None has been convicted of molesting that I know of. 2. Nevertheless, the idea keeps popping up in the media. 3. There’s a well-known syndrome that drives some people to believe that missing or dead relatives suffered the worst fate imaginable, and to build their own scenarios based on very little fact. 4. In 2006, any fool with a computer can fake a photograph. ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/22 "2006-09-05T21:47:04Z")
Ok, **Wildfire** , I usually wouldn’t respond to this kind of tabloid-style conspiracy theory, but I grew up in Iowa and heard all the publicity around the search for Johnny Gosch. That said, consider this: What possible reason would anyone in any position of power have for kidnapping a paper boy in suburban Iowa? His parents were no one of note, politically. They weren’t controversial. They weren’t from anywhere significant. (As a European, you probably don’t know this, but Iowa is about as far from significant goings-on as you can get. It’s a state built around farms and insurance companies.) Johnny was just some random kid. Not every unfortunate event is caused by a vast government conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/23 "2006-09-05T22:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=mrklutz] What possible reason would anyone in any position of power have for kidnapping a paper boy in suburban Iowa? [/QUOTE] \ Perhaps there was something in that day’s edition that somebody on the boy’s route was not supposed to read. \ ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/24 "2006-09-06T00:34:26Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] I actually read some of the links provided. The link to the White House involves “reporter” Jeff Gannon, who is apparantly a gay prostitute, and who somehow managed to get into the press room of the WH on several occasions. Which makes for a much juicier story, BTW. [/QUOTE] Except that they’re apparently claiming Gannon **is** Gosch, and the former would have been in his early 20s at the time. The analysis that **Zabali** linked also points out that the “boy in the sweatpants Gosch was wearing” actually appears to be wearing white jeans. Whoops. (And am I just not seeing it, or do the boys not look scared/distressed? It’s hard to tell in the bad quality photos - it’s even hard to see the purported “brand” in the one.) ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/25 "2006-09-06T03:00:32Z")
[QUOTE=Ferret Herder] Except that they’re apparently claiming Gannon **is** Gosch, and the former would have been in his early 20s at the time. The analysis that **Zabali** linked also points out that the “boy in the sweatpants Gosch was wearing” actually appears to be wearing white jeans. Whoops. (And am I just not seeing it, or do the boys not look scared/distressed? It’s hard to tell in the bad quality photos - it’s even hard to see the purported “brand” in the one.) [/QUOTE] Supposedly, the mother received several different pictures. The one where he’s sporting the sweats he had on at the time of his kidnapping, can be viewed [here](http://www.johnnygosch.com/images/JT.jpg). So does this mean that those were taken on different days? With multiple changes of clothes? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/26 "2006-09-06T03:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=Ferret Herder] And am I just not seeing it, or do the boys not look scared/distressed? [/QUOTE] I agree. In fact, the boys’ hands are bound at the wrists, but the fingers are free. Left alone, any boy who’s half awake would have untied the other kid in about 30 seconds. There is something fishy with that photo. It can’t be what it looks like as the first impression. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/27 "2006-09-06T13:55:34Z")
My first thought when seeing the picture of the three boys was also that they did not look “sufficiently” distressed. One of the linked articles has a similar photo of a tied up teen girl and young boy, who look very distressed by comparison. But if the photo is a fake, where did it originate? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/28 "2006-09-06T19:56:24Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] I’m sorry for loss, & her terrible suffering, but I do not believe the White House is involved. And _that’s_ from a guy who believes that our current Administration has done many terrible things. [/QUOTE] I’m sure the current Administration kidnapped a kid in Iowa in '82 since they knew they’d be in power in '06. Oh, that’s right! Bush Sr. was veep, he was behind it and kept the kid in the dungeon during the Clinton years to pass him down to the current Administration. Damn, why didn’t I see that. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/29 "2006-09-07T04:39:51Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] But if the photo is a fake, where did it originate? [/QUOTE] Are we sure the photo really pictures Johnny? Based on Noreen’s record, I don’t trust her judgment enough to rely solely on that. In fact, I don’t trust her enough to rule out her being responsible for the photo. There are a bunch of possibilities we could speculate, and none I can come up with are very satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/30 "2006-09-14T12:48:21Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] But if the photo is a fake, where did it originate? [/QUOTE] [Mystery solved.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2429828) But this doesn’t let George Bush, the Rastafarians and the Israel Lobby off the hook. Oh no sirree bob. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/31 "2006-09-14T12:59:24Z")
From the article, this is pretty telling: > [@](#): > > Zalva said his investigation never resulted in an arrest because the children in the photos never admitted that the suspect touched them inappropriately. **He said the boys in the photos had voluntarily posed for the photos** , but he couldn’t recall why. [Bolding mine.] I wondered the same thing whenever everyone mentioned that the boys didn’t look particularly distressed, but couldn’t find a way to articulate why without sounding like I needed a tinfoil hat of my own. And I do feel sorry for Noreen, who is probably at this point, a mixture of grasping at straws, a chaser of conspiracy theories and sadly, an attention hound (undoubtedly all in the name of finding her son). ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/32 "2006-09-14T15:20:27Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] I actually read some of the links provided. The link to the White House involves “reporter” Jeff Gannon, who is apparantly a gay prostitute, and who somehow managed to get into the press room of the WH on several occasions. [/QUOTE] See? It’s not Bush! IT’S THE LIBERAL MEDIA!!! ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/33 "2006-09-14T15:31:47Z")
Seriously, I don’t know if I should feel sorry for this woman, or if she’s running some kind of scam. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/34 "2006-09-14T15:48:22Z")
The poor woman has gone around the bend, I think. Her son was most likely killed soon after he was taken. (In Iowa! I thought Iowa was a Nice Place!) Why doesn’t the web page mention the exact date of the boy’s return? Didn’t she jot it down? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/35 "2006-09-14T15:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] However, his case was never as sensational. I can’t remember the name now, does someone know more about this? [/QUOTE] Eugene Martin, missing since August 1984. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/36 "2006-09-15T20:19:54Z")
New development, these pictures are probably not of Johnny Gosch > [@](#): > > Detective Nelson Zalva said he thinks the photos are connected to a Florida case from the late 1970s, years before a newspaper delivery boy disappeared > > Zalva said both photos are part of the same case. He said that at the time the pictures first surfaced he tracked down the boys, who all claimed they voluntarily posed for the photographs. > > Police did not file charges. [http://www.kcci.com/news/9849752/detail.html](http://www.kcci.com/news/9849752/detail.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/37 "2006-09-15T20:28:29Z")
Nice of you to retract. But not before you managed to smear Karl Rove with this ridiculous made-up story. Don’t you feel even a little bit of shame for that? Or is Karl Rove so evil that it doesn’t matter? I want you to get down on your knees and beg Karl Rove for forgiveness. Alternatively, undertake to stop posting malicious slanderous false accusations of public figures you don’t like. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/38 "2006-09-16T00:34:50Z")
I was on her side at first- becasue of her loss, she must have gone through hell and all, and maybe kind of “lost it”. But unless she’s turned into a complete basket case, her not being able to recognize a picture of her son seems quite peculiar… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/39 "2006-09-16T01:03:36Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] I think George Bush kidnapped Johnny, and borrowed a jet from his ANGuard days to fly up and do it. [/QUOTE] Okay, that would involve Bush actually showing up for his Air National Guard duty, so your theory falls by the wayside right there. [QUOTE=mrklutz] As a European, you probably don’t know this, but Iowa is about as far from significant goings-on as you can get. It’s a state built around farms and insurance companies. [/QUOTE] Dude, it’s Nebraska that is build around farms and insurance companies; Iowa is built around farms and corn-fed beef. Get your indistinguisable rectangular Mid-Western states straight, will ya? So…what’s up with Bat-Boy these days? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313/40 "2006-09-16T01:59:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] I actually read some of the links provided. The link to the White House involves “reporter” Jeff Gannon, who is apparantly a gay prostitute, and who somehow managed to get into the press room of the WH on several occasions. Which makes for a much juicier story, BTW. [/QUOTE] Gannon worked for [Talon.org](http://Talon.org), a news site backed by the Republican Party. He was noted for lobbing real softball questions to Scott McClellan whenever he was called on. He was probably there, at McClellan’s behest, for that reason, maybe for others, since Gannon WAS a male prostitute and in fact had a website advertising his wares, so to speak. Gannon didn’t SOMEHOW get inot White House press conferences, all the evidence indicates he was let in. On purpose. By the White House staff. The allegation about Gannon and Gock are interesting but ISTM a DNA test would put them to rest or confirm them in a heartbeat if anyone took them seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-case-of-johnny-gosch/371313.md?page=3)