# The bizarre pronunciation of certain English surnames **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2000, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594 "2000-02-19T09:08:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/21 "2017-06-03T12:12:48Z")
> [@Phouchg](#): > > I know of one man with the name of Raymond Luxury-Yacht, yet it is pronounced “Throatwobbler Mangrove”. You are a very silly man and I’m not going to interview you. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/22 "2017-06-03T12:33:00Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > I beg to differ …IMO Dennis Price and Ian Carmichael were THE Jeeves and Wooster. Michael Horden and Richard Briers were THE Jeeves and Wooster. Stephen Fry was too young, and Ian Carmichael was too old. As a rule Americans tend to pronounce words exactly as they are spelt. Which won’t get you very far here, try finding Leicester or Gloucester that way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/23 "2017-06-03T14:05:45Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > You are a very silly man and I’m not going to interview you. :smack: Considering he hasn’t been on in 13 years, you probably wouldn’t have had a shot anyway. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/24 "2017-06-03T16:12:42Z")
> [@Yeah](#): > > This phenomenon must be related to the peculiar process that renders English names so strangely, e.g., Wooster for Worcestershire, etc. Let me be the first to nitpick here, a short 17 years after the fact. 🙂 Worcester is pronounced “wooster.” Worcestershire is is pronounced “wooster-shur.” ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/25 "2017-06-03T16:55:38Z")
> [@NanoByte](#): > > Nuffle that. > > But what is a featherstonehaugh? My dictionary says ‘haugh’ is Scottish English for ‘a low-lying meadow in a river valley’. Is an FSH such a valley with light-weight stones? > > Ray (not heavy into petrology) That’s a tuff one. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/26 "2017-06-03T17:04:45Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Let me be the first to nitpick here, a short 17 years after the fact. 🙂 > > Worcester is pronounced “wooster.” > > Worcestershire is is pronounced “wooster-shur.” To nitpick your nitpick: Not when the subject is the fermented anchovy condiment - Worcestershire sauce is pronounced ‘wooster sauce’ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/27 "2017-06-03T17:18:02Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > To nitpick your nitpick: Not when the subject is the fermented anchovy condiment - Worcestershire sauce is pronounced ‘wooster sauce’ But isn’t that just a nickname for it? Wouldn’t it formally be pronounced as woostuhshur sauce, or however you want to spell it out? (ETA: For example, [here there are samples of four native UK speakers](https://forvo.com/word/worcestershire_sauce/#en), and they all say it the full way. Or maybe you’re making a funny?) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/28 "2017-06-03T17:21:04Z")
It’s woosta-sheer. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/29 "2017-06-03T17:57:23Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That one, at least, must be a regional thing, because SF radio icon Ray Taliaferro pronounces his name the way it is spelled. “Tolliver” for “Taliaferro” is a British pronunciation of an Italian name which has had a change in spelling.\* It’s not exactly a regional thing, because there is a family that emigrated from England to Virginia ( I think in the 17th century) who spelled their name " Taliaferro" and pronounced it “Tolliver”. Descendants of that family still pronounce it “Tolliver” and Taliaferro county, Virginia is pronounced “Tolliver”. However, many people in the US named Taliaferro are not descended from that family and do not use the “Tolliver” pronunciation. - The original name is “Tagliaferro” and the Italian pronunciation is closer to “Tolliver” than it would appear. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/30 "2017-06-03T18:04:22Z")
> [@KSTV](#): > > […]“Ye” is pronounced “the” because " Y" looks like the Greek Theta (which is “T” in modern language). Theta is Θ or ϴ, and tau is T. While we’re at it upsilon is Υ. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/31 "2017-06-03T19:28:46Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Worcestershire is is pronounced “wooster-shur.” The town in Mass is “whuh-stuh.” > [@doreen](#): > > “Tolliver” for “Taliaferro” is a British pronunciation of an Italian name which has had a change in spelling.\* It’s not exactly a regional thing, because there is a family that emigrated from England to Virginia ( I think in the 17th century) who spelled their name " Taliaferro" and pronounced it “Tolliver”. Descendants of that family still pronounce it “Tolliver” and Taliaferro county, Virginia is pronounced “Tolliver”. However, many people in the US named Taliaferro are not descended from that family and do not use the “Tolliver” pronunciation. Robert Heinlein wrung this dichotomy (double dichotomy? quatomy?) dry in a late novel, where the pronunciation and spelling of a man’s name was a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/32 "2017-06-03T19:53:04Z")
> [@KSTV](#): > > In “Ye Olde Shoppe”, “Ye” is pronounced “the” because " Y" looks like the Greek Theta (which is “T” in modern language). In old English, the symbol for theta was used for the “t” sound…hence, “Ye”. Others have handled the corrections, but, whew that’s a remarkably high density of errors-to-words there. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/33 "2017-06-03T19:56:29Z")
> [@digs](#): > > And of course Fry and Laurie for being THE Jeeves and Wooster. Hugh Laurie was amazingly an exact manifestation of how I had always imagined Bertie when reading the books. Stephen Fry was okay as Jeeves but not great. First, he looked way too young at the time. Second, he was supposed to be the straight man but he rarely delivered a straight line properly. He always signaled the joke with his facial expressions. ---
**Author:** ![KSTV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@KSTV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSTV)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/34 "2017-06-03T21:56:26Z")
I was mistaken in the theta origin of Ye, it is from the old Norse, old english Thorn ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/35 "2017-06-03T22:15:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But isn’t that just a nickname for it? Wouldn’t it formally be pronounced as woostuhshur sauce, or however you want to spell it out? (ETA: For example, [here there are samples of four native UK speakers](https://forvo.com/word/worcestershire_sauce/#en), and they all say it the full way. Or maybe you’re making a funny?) I think you’ll get a different answer when you ask these two questions: Q1: How do you pronounce these words: Worcestershire Sauce? Q2: What’s in [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Lea_%26_Perrins_worcestershire_sauce_150ml.jpg/220px-Lea_%26_Perrins_worcestershire_sauce_150ml.jpg) bottle? I don’t know if that makes it a nickname, or not. I think the only thing that would definitively settle it would be an ad from the manufacturer saying it one way or the other, but unfortunately, I think they always refer to it by the brand only. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/36 "2017-06-03T22:23:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I think the only thing that would definitively settle it would be an ad from the manufacturer saying it one way or the other, but unfortunately, I think they always refer to it by the brand only. I was wrong about this - they do name it, but that doesn’t help, because they do not name it consistently: In [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWaxng7wWuM) ad, they call it ‘Worcestershire’ In [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFRQqyMBnK8) one, they call it ‘Worcester’ (both in speech and actually in writing) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/37 "2017-06-03T22:32:41Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Let me be the first to nitpick here, a short 17 years after the fact. 🙂 > > Worcester is pronounced “wooster.” > > Worcestershire is is pronounced “wooster-shur.” And I suppose Dorchester is ‘dooster’? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/38 "2017-06-03T22:39:28Z")
I read A Little Princess as a girl, and it has a number of names like this. The heroine sees a large family and invents fancy names for them, including, “Cholmondley”, which of course I mispronounced in my head. It doesn’t sound as fancy when it’s “Chumly”, anyway. (Note that the boy’s actual name is “Donald”.) I was also confused by what “aitches” were. Sara worried that she might start dropping her “aitches” when she becomes poor. I thought they might be dishes, since she helped in the kitchen. (Of course, she meant “h’s”.) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/39 "2017-06-04T06:11:33Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > And I suppose Dorchester is ‘dooster’? :dubious: Are you suggesting robby is incorrect about how almost everyone pronounces Worcester and Worcestershire? (allowing for some variation in his “-oo-” to include more of an “-uh-”) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2017, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594/40 "2017-06-04T06:14:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > To nitpick your nitpick: Not when the subject is the fermented anchovy condiment - Worcestershire sauce is pronounced ‘wooster sauce’ I have never heard this, or heard of it. It’s “woo-ster-shur sauce,” just like the county. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bizarre-pronunciation-of-certain-english-surnames/7594.md?page=3)