# The Black and White Film Appreciation Thread: Part 1 Dr Strangelove **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 7, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518 "2003-02-07T18:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/21 "2003-02-07T21:09:49Z")
Shoot, a fella’ could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff. Re: the OP, the use of B&W in the movie is essential for a couple of reasons. Not only is it easy to match up the stock footage of nuclear explosions, but it gives the invasion of Ripper’s base a true newsreel verite feel. Also, the B&W accentuates the sinister spaciousness of Ken Adams’ brilliant set designs. The Director of Photography for _Strangelove_ was Gilbert Taylor, who directed other B&W classics like _Repulsion_ and _A Hard Day’s Night_, not to mention a small little film you may have heard of called _Star Wars_. Never received an Oscar nomination though. ---
**Author:** ![Mearl\_Dox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Mearl\_Dox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mearl_Dox)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/22 "2003-02-07T21:22:10Z")
I’m pretty sure age doesn’t have anything to do with it, it’s more taste. I’m 21, and I was about 19 or 20 when I first saw Dr. Strangelove, and I loved it. It’s a hilarious movie. Even though I don’t personally remember anything about the Cold War, I _know_ about it, and c’mon, how can someone not get a cultural reference like thinking everything is a commie plot? :dubious: But, I do like dark humor, so maybe that’s why I enjoyed it so much. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/23 "2003-02-07T21:37:41Z")
Didn’t Slim Pickens think he was in a serious movie? ---
**Author:** ![Cholo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Cholo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cholo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/24 "2003-02-07T21:39:21Z")
Here’s some trivia for you film buffs. 1. The scene where the President of the United States (Sellers) calls the Russian head of state (Dmitri) and informs Dmitri of the upcoming attack was improvised by Sellers. 2. When Slim Pickens is going through his “bag of goodies” the original script called for him to say _Shoot, a fella’ could have a pretty good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff_. However due to the JFK getting killed there right around the time of the film’s release, Kubrick went back and had the word “Vegas” inserted there. Watch Slim’s lips and you’ll see him say “Dallas”. 3. This was James Earl Jone’s film debut. Anyway…it’s one of the best films ever made! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/25 "2003-02-07T21:49:24Z")
People don’t appreciate Dr. Strangelove?! Infidels! I guess in a way I can see it. It’s one thing to know about something intellectually; it’s another thing to have experienced it. Dr. Strangelove’s humor was the humor of nervous laughter, and if you were never nervous in that particular way, I could see not finding hte laughter so funny. Still, though. It’s a fantastic movie. I grew up susicious of old movies, too: we just didn’t watch them in my house, and the ones that came on TV seemed to be wholesome fiber-filled educational _Leave it to Beaver_ movies. It wasn’t until I went to college that I discovered the magical world of Humphrey Bogart and Alfred Hitchcock, and realized that there have always been twisted senses of humor in Hollywood. Some nominations for future parts: _The Maltese Falcon_, containing my favorite snappy dialogue; _Casablanca_, with great humor and pathos; _Dial M for Murder_, the most plot-filled movie I’ve ever seen; and _Dead Man_, an example of what a modern director can do with black and white. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/26 "2003-02-07T22:09:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _kefka said:_ two, kubrick had seen failsafe and much of the movie is an intentional parody of it Gee, given that _Fail-Safe_ opened **after** _Strangelove_, how do you think he managed to do _that_? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/27 "2003-02-07T22:16:28Z")
Quoth **Banger** : > [@](#): > > His argument was that “black and white” movies are movies filmed before color filming was available, whereas “movies filmed in black and white” are movies filmed in black and white despite the availability of color filming. I wasn’t sure if this was some drunken logic or something he heard in a Film and Theate 101 class, as his explanation for why he distinguished the two didn’t make any sense I think I can see the reasoning. Before the development of color, there wasn’t a choice. Maybe some old movies _would_ have been better in color; it’s hard to say. But after the invention of color film, filmmakers had a choice. Now, if a movie is made in B&W, it’s because the movie maker _wants_ it that way. It’s an artistic decision, now, not just a technical one. For what it’s worth, I think that in order to appreciate this film, you need to have spent at least one sleepless night as a child scared to death of nuclear annihilation because of something you (or your parents) saw on the 6:00 news. I rather clearly remember one night (though I can’t reconstruct, in retrospect, what the specific crisis was) that Mom said in no uncertain terms that the world as we knew it might not exist the next morning. ---
**Author:** ![kefka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@kefka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kefka)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/28 "2003-02-07T22:44:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ArchiveGuy \* > \*\*Gee, given that _Fail-Safe_ opened **after** _Strangelove_, how do you think he managed to do _that_? > > :rolleyes: \*\* my bad i mistyped… kubrick had read the book that failsafe was based on and the film was not a parody of failsafe, but in fact a parody of the failsafe-esque type of film… interestingly, according to imdb: “Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) has a remarkably similar premise, and was being made by Stanley Kubrick at the same time. Kubrick threatened legal action, claiming plagiarism. The issue was settled when Columbia Pictures agreed to push Kubrick’s film at the expense of Fail-Safe (1964), which subsequently bombed at the box office.” i learn something new everyday ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/29 "2003-02-07T23:21:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asterion \* > \*\*If I remember correctly, it wasn’t that Sellers couldn’t get an accent right, but that he injured his leg or something and couldn’t do the moving around the B-52 set. \*\* SELLERS: I cannot play Maj. Kong, I have a leg injury. KUBRICK: But have you seen the other actors? It’s Slim Pickens! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/30 "2003-02-07T23:39:36Z")
My favorite line is still [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154730) one: **"Stay on the bomb run, boys! I’m gonna get them doors open if it harelips everybody on Bear Creek."** I’m sorry, but I don’t believe anyone–not even Peter Sellers–could have delivered that line better than Slim Pickens. ---
**Author:** ![Natural-J-Bankie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Natural-J-Bankie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natural-J-Bankie)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/31 "2003-02-08T03:50:07Z")
I’m 23 and I just recently saw Dr. Strangelove. I have to say that normally I’m not as interested in black and white movies. Not to say they are bad, but it takes a bit more motivation to go see them. While I don’t think I experienced the same things that some of the older Dopers did during the cold war, I think I have enough of an understanding of the situation to appreciate the movie. It was actually quite a bit better than I expected initially. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/32 "2003-02-08T05:01:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gatopescado \* > \*\*Awsome movie. One of my favorites. > > For next weeks film, I would like to nominate “Night of the Living Dead”. 🙂 > > \*\* Great idea Consider it done! I’ll accept any nominations for the next few weeks but that one is too good to pass up. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/33 "2003-02-08T05:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*Before the development of color, there wasn’t a choice. Maybe some old movies _would_ have been better in color; it’s hard to say. But after the invention of color film, filmmakers had a choice. Now, if a movie is made in B&W, it’s because the movie maker _wants_ it that way. It’s an artistic decision, now, not just a technical one. > > . \*\* Aye there is the rub Remember Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind (1930s) both had colour. Technicolour was around at an earlier stage than most people were aware of. True it was more expensive and took a while to become the norm but colour films exist in almost every decade of films history (The earliest being hand tinted) By the time of Strangelove Kubrick could have easily chosen colour (the Best Picture of that year was **My Fair Lady** in glorious technocolour) however it was an artistic choice that has been explained in another post. There are many films where colour simply would have been a deterence. Many of the 1940s Film noir would have failed to evoke the mood and style had they been done in colour. True **China Town** came cloes to evoking that same mood but lacked the true atmosphere of the shadows and lightplay that b/w cinematographers excelled at. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/34 "2003-02-08T05:20:44Z")
Many do “know” that Dr Strangelove appears only in the last half of the film, that is not so: while the general (George C Scott) is talking to the president early in the war room scene one thinks he is talking in real time to the president (Sellers); watching the movie recently, on a large TV, I noticed that a few seats to the right of the general there was Strangelove (Sellers again)! So, a take that would have been easier to do by Kubrik (by not showing Strangelove) is in reality a great piece of editing and acting only noticed after one sees the movie again. IMO the capacity for a movie to surprise, even on a second viewing, is one of the attributes of a true classic. If you still think it was not serious that Sellers was going to play Maj.T.J Kong check this test shot of Sellers as Kong: [sub]Geocities does not allow direct linking so click on “test shot of Sellers as Maj. Kong” :[/sub] [http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/3566/strangeimage.html](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/3566/strangeimage.html) After looking that, I agree that it was good Pickens got the part. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/35 "2003-02-08T05:42:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Natural-J-Bankie \* > \*\*I have to say that normally I’m not as interested in black and white movies. Not to say they are bad, but it takes a bit more motivation to go see them. \*\* For me, it’s exactly the opposite: I love black and white films. Black and white captures an interplay of light and shadow and lends a beautiful aura of mystique that color movies (or modern directors) cannot. \* Schindler’s List \* is a great example of the wonderful lighting and shadow of black and white films. Early in the movie, when Oskar is filmed from the back, and his cigarette smoke swirls upward is gorgeous, cinematically speaking. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/36 "2003-02-08T06:29:27Z")
Dr. Strangelove is the midnight movie at the Inwood Theatre here in Dallas three weekends from now. I am so totally stoked. (2001 was the midnight movie a few months ago. That was the most glorious night of cinema of my life. The Shining is on tomorrow night. Obviously, the folks who run the Inwood have a major love of Kubrick, which is just fine with me.) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/37 "2003-02-08T09:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Banger \* > **Some drunk guy in a bar once told me that this wasn’t a “black and white movie”, but instead was a “movie filmed in black and white”. His argument was that “black and white” movies are movies filmed before color filming was available, whereas “movies filmed in black and white” are movies filmed in black and white despite the availability of color filming.** The [first](http://us.imdb.com/Details?0000782) color film was released in 1908. The first color [feature](http://us.imdb.com/Details?0243880), a documentary, was released in 1912. The first [dramatic](http://us.imdb.com/Details?0004837) feature filmed in color was released in 1914. [Color](http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/index.htm) has been available for virtually the entire history of feature-length motion pictures. The first year in which color feature production in the U.S. outnumbered black and white feature production: 1954. ---
**Author:** ![Adam\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Adam\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adam_P)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/38 "2003-02-08T17:42:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fretful Porpentine \* > \*\*Sadly, I think we’ve crossed a new generational watershed. I taught this film in my freshman comp classes last year. To my great surprise, all but one of the students hated it. This particular student happened to be a fifth-year senior who was only _just now_ getting around to taking freshman comp, hence old enough to remember the Cold War. The others simply didn’t get it – they had no idea what was being satirized, or even that it was satire at all. There were a few laughs when Mandrake shot the Coke machine, but everything else was lost on them. > > At that moment, a month before my twenty-sixth birthday, I realized I was officially an Old Fogey. ☹ \*\* Maybe you taught it wrong. The film is more topical than ever, now that nuclear weapons are once again considered legitimate thanks to the twisted minds of Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz. Cheney, by the way, bears an uncanny resemblance to Strangelove, with the same bizarre physical tics and pathological love of high-tech weaponry. Cheney, recall, advised Bush I to use low-grade nuclear weapons during the Gulf War. Both Bush and Powell were reportedly shocked at the idea… “Mein fuehrer!– I mean Mr. President!” ---
**Author:** ![kefka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@kefka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kefka)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/39 "2003-02-08T17:50:54Z")
since “night of the living dead” has been nominated next week, i’d like to nominate for the week after that: Akira Kurosawa’s “Rashomon” amazing film. if you’ve ever seen a movie where the camera is pointed at the sun(perhaps Mike Nichols’ “The Graduate” or David Lean’s “Lawrence of Arabia”) this is because of Rashomon, which was the first movie ever to do that. also, if you’re ever interested in more about the revolutionary camerawork from this film(in _gasp_ black and white), check out the criterion collection dvd of it… but anyway, thus i have made my nomination 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518/40 "2003-02-08T17:54:47Z")
Major Kong: “Well boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader’s mule, the radio’s gone and we’re leaking fuel – and if we was flying any lower why we’d need sleigh bells on this thing. But we got one little fudge on them Ruskies, at this height why they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain’t gonna spot us on no radar.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-black-and-white-film-appreciation-thread-part-1-dr-strangelove/153518.md?page=3)