# The blind, fanatical nature of support for Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990 "2010-10-04T10:52:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/41 "2010-10-04T17:55:40Z")
I’m happy to fanatically support any nation which is willing to try it’s own soldiers for crimes in war. Of course, Israel only sometimes does this, so my support is rather conditional in their case. As a more general idea, I fanatically support not having 200 mushroom clouds sprout up over the cities of Israels enemies. Recent history has proven an Israel that does not have a huge military domination over their neighbors will be attacked. In a war serious enough that Israels very existence could be threatened, I’m quite sure that Israel would use the nukes. So I suppose that means I tend to fanatically support boosting Israels military. Better a cluster bomb than a nuclear bomb I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/42 "2010-10-04T18:02:39Z")
I’ve never thought or claimed that Israel is morally perfect. But I do think that Israel has a better moral record overall than any of the other parties involved in the Middle East. So I’ll supoort Israel until there’s a better alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/43 "2010-10-04T18:15:25Z")
Heck, religion aside , I’ll support the country in the area with the most (arguably only) stable democracy, full suffrage, a free press… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/44 "2010-10-04T18:34:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > When so many people are unrelenting in their call for Israel’s destruction, its supporter feel that they cannot afford to concede any points even when, in less contentious circumstances, they would admit that Israel had done wrong. I think this behavior is pretty common amongst a lot of groups. As an undergraduate my school would often have events in support of Palestinians. On one such occasion they had a simulated Israeli checkpoint with people standing in line to demonstrate how it sucks that the Palestinians don’t have freedom of movement. The first thing I thought when I read about the event was “Are they also going to include simulated suicide bombers?” To the OP, if we want to talk about blind fanatical support why not include the support given to Palestinians? Whenever rockets fly from Palestine to Israel I never see any serious widespread condemnation of the actions. However when Israel responds to these attacks it’s a crime against humanity and people protest. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/45 "2010-10-04T18:38:00Z")
My perception is just the opposite. Nothing Israel does is condemned by the US media or its politicians, while Palestinians are always portrayed as subhuman scum, especially in the conservative media outlets. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/46 "2010-10-04T18:41:14Z")
When was the last time Hizbollah or Hamas put a couple of their people on trial for endangering Israeli children? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/47 "2010-10-04T18:41:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve never thought or claimed that Israel is morally perfect. But I do think that Israel has a better moral record overall than any of the other parties involved in the Middle East. Jordan has a better human rights record than Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/48 "2010-10-04T18:42:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > When was the last time Hizbollah or Hamas put a couple of their people on trial for endangering Israeli children? Those aren’t countries. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/49 "2010-10-04T18:44:59Z")
So? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/50 "2010-10-04T18:46:43Z")
So they don’t have court systems. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/51 "2010-10-04T18:48:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So they don’t have court systems. Lots of non-state or proto-state organizations/factions/movements have their own court systems, for what such are worth. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/52 "2010-10-04T19:05:42Z")
Those are not proto-state or quasi-state organizations either. They are, for lack of a better word, political parties. **Shodan’s** potshot is irrelevant in any case. What other entities do has no bearing on the morality of what Israel or does, or on the legality of what its individual citizens do. Sneering at Hamas does not address anything of substance in the OP. It’s just a snide, irrelevant, mis-aimed attempt at a _tu quoque_. It’s not even really supportive of Israel. Israel did the right thing and convicted two criminals. Support for Israel in this case means support for the conviction. Anyone who defends the criminals is actually showing opposition to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/53 "2010-10-04T19:29:55Z")
_:shrugs;_ I haven’t seen much evidence that it helps to show where you are mistaken, but - > [@](#): > > Nine Palestinians - most of them affiliated to the Palestinian Authority ¶ Fatah movement - face imminent execution by hanging or firing squad in Gaza. > > The Hamas authorities, who control Gaza, have accused nearly all the condemned men of “treason and collaborating with Israel”. Another seven Palestinians have been sentenced to death in absentia. > > Hamas-run military courts in Gaza sentenced 16 people to death in 2009 and 2010. Eight of these were convicted of treason. A Hamas civilian court sentenced one person to death during that period. [Cite.](http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=50928) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/54 "2010-10-04T19:38:35Z")
That’s the Palestinian Authority, not Hamas _per se_. That’s like saying the Democrats have a Court system because they have a majority in Congress and currently control the White House. so no, Hamas doesn’t have a court system. The Palestinian Authority has a court system. What do you have to say to those who think the Israeli soldiers in this case should not have been charged? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/55 "2010-10-04T19:42:00Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > That, and we need them there so we have a friendly military staging area for throwing our dick around in the oil producing countries. Where did you get this idea from? It’s completely untrue; Israel has never been used as a staging area for any American military personnel. The only time an American military force has ever even been stationed in Israel that I can think of was some Patriot batteries during Desert Storm in 1991 sent to shoot down Scuds fired at Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/56 "2010-10-04T19:43:25Z")
Incidentally, would Israel even _allow_ the Palestinian Authority to try anyone accused of anti-Israeli terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/57 "2010-10-04T19:54:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My perception is just the opposite. Nothing Israel does is condemned by the US media or its politicians, while Palestinians are always portrayed as subhuman scum, especially in the conservative media outlets. I would agree with that but I wasn’t limiting myself to the United States alone I just used my college experience as an example. I haven’t heard the UN or various middle eastern countries issue condemnations about Palestinians rocketing Israel, abducting Israeli soldiers, or suicide bombings. If it makes you feel any better I suspect that you are more likely to find Palestinian support at large universities than you are strong Israeli support. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/58 "2010-10-04T19:57:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s the Palestinian Authority, not Hamas _per se_. That’s like saying the Democrats have a Court system because they have a majority in Congress and currently control the White House. so no, Hamas doesn’t have a court system. The Palestinian Authority has a court system. While it may not be Hamas the bigger point is that there is some mechanism within Palestine to punish what they perceive to be criminals. > [@](#): > > What do you have to say to those who think the Israeli soldiers in this case should not have been charged? Not much. I just don’t think I can say anything to someone who thinks its appropriate to force a 9 year old child to look for booby traps that would make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/59 "2010-10-04T20:00:05Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > In the US at least, a big portion is the fear of being labeled an anti-semite. It is almost as if we are giving Israel a free pass due to “white Man’s guilt” re: the Jews. It’s weird. That, and we need them there so we have a friendly military staging area for throwing our dick around in the oil producing countries. Acid Lamp, I agree with you totally, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990/60 "2010-10-04T20:04:50Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > That’s the Palestinian Authority, not Hamas _per se_. That’s like saying the Democrats have a Court system because they have a majority in Congress and currently control the White House. so no, Hamas doesn’t have a court system. The Palestinian Authority has a court system. > > While it may not be Hamas the bigger point is that there is some mechanism within Palestine to punish what they perceive to be criminals. Yes, but **Shodan** specifically said Hamas. I wonder if the PA would even be allowed to try people accused of crimes against Israel or Israeli citizens anyway. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > What do you have to say to those who think the Israeli soldiers in this case should not have been charged? > > Not much. I just don’t think I can say anything to someone who thinks its appropriate to force a 9 year old child to look for booby traps that would make a difference. That question was really for **Shodan** , since he hasn’t addressed the core issue of the thread at all, which was why some people go so overboard in (what they imagine to be) their support of Israel that they would defend even actions that Israel itself believes to be crimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-blind-fanatical-nature-of-support-for-israel/555990.md?page=4)