# The BNP: a legitimate political party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254 "2004-07-15T13:45:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/1 "2004-07-15T13:45:29Z")
So I got home from work last night around 10.45pm, already in a fairly foul mood. I switch on the TV and flick around. Humph, _Newsnight_, yawn-o… but wait, here comes a story about a BBC documentary, to be shown the next night (i.e. tonight) in which an undercover reporter infiltrated the British National Party (caution: contains nuts). [This report](http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004322117,00.html) (in true tabloid style, but I make no apologies for linking to _The Sun_) sums up his findings. A couple of highlights: > [@](#): > > [BNP member Steve]Barkham says: "I gave him a good f_ **ing hiding, because that’s what he asked for. I’ve hit him and as it happens, he’s just stumbled over and I’ve hit him again, and hes f** _ing down, he’s out. > > “I’m kicking him, kicking away, kicking away. Oh, it was f\*\*\*ing fantastic.” > > … > BNP councillor Stewart Williams tells how he wants to attack Bradford mosques. > > He says: "My dream is to have a Transit van with a machine gun in the back, you know like they have in the back of the helicopters, with about a million bullets. > > “All wired up to it, just open the doors outside the mosque on a Friday afternoon when they are all coming out.” > > In another sequence he claims to possess an antique gun and adds: “All I want to do is shoot P\*kis.” > > … > > Other shocking scenes include BNP council candidate Dave Midgley admitting he repeatedly squirted dog dirt through the letterbox of an Asian takeaway. I was appalled, but somehow not surprised. The BNP in recent years has “reinvented” itself, from being an unashamedly loonie organisation full of racist thugs, to being a, well, ostensibly legitimate political party full of racist thugs. This, incidentally, is the BNP’s [response to the story](http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/2004_july/news_july06.htm). No apology, just an attack on the BBC and more conspiracy theories: > [@](#): > > Finally, while we do not expect anything other than smears and hatchet jobs from the institutionally anti-white and Islamophile BBC, we believe that its hostility towards the BNP has been sharpened more than ever by its executives’ concerns about the early stages of our campaign against the BBC Licence Fee, which we intend to continue to expose as illegal under European human rights legislation. I wish I could see into the minds of people like this and understand where they get their hate from. It is truly one of the mysteries of the universe. The programme, _The Secret Agent_ is on BBC1 at 9pm tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/2 "2004-07-15T13:53:38Z")
Oh, I forgot the most depressing part. This “party” garnered more than **800,000** votes in the recent European elections. Eight. Hundred. Thousand. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/3 "2004-07-15T14:07:36Z")
You’re deeply surprised that about 5% of the votes cast were done by neolithic throwbacks? Besides it looks like only 24% of the electorate voted according to this site at the [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/euro_uk/html/front.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/4 "2004-07-15T14:23:35Z")
The Beeb’s anti-white now? Muahahaha. 🙂 All righty, 10 PM CET then. Sounds like a good bit of fun. I trust those Islamophiles at the Beeb will do their best to display the BNP for the racist fucknuggets they are. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/5 "2004-07-15T14:33:47Z")
I’m not sure wht question your asking here. Are you asking if the BNP is full of wankers, then we both know the answer to that. If you are asking if they are a legitimate poilitical party then the answer is: I am afraid that they are. In certain communities they are the authentic voice of the white working class, we may not like that voice but it is entitled to be heard. As to the vile statements and actions of these people we have heard from members of Sinn Fein, the SWP, and other equally vile individuals. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/6 "2004-07-15T14:36:38Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > As to the vile statements and actions of these people we have heard from members of Sinn Fein, the SWP, and other equally vile individuals. Sorry that last sentence should have read: As to the vile statements and actions of these people we have heard SIMILAR ATTRIBUTED to members of Sinn Fein, SWP etc ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/7 "2004-07-15T14:39:02Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You’re deeply surprised that about 5% of the votes cast were done by neolithic throwbacks? Deeply surprised, no. Deeply depressed, yes. In percentage terms, that may not be much, but still – 800,000 is a lot of racist fucknuggets (thanks, **Coldfire** ) with whom to share a country. Then, of course, there’s the 2.65 million people who voted for the [UK Incoherence Party](http://www.ukip.org), fronted by Robert Kil-those-filthy-immigrants-Silk. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/8 "2004-07-15T14:42:19Z")
There’s an extended interview with the leader of the BNP on Newsnight 10:30 BBC2 after the show. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/9 "2004-07-15T14:42:24Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > I’m not sure what question you’re asking here. This is the Pit, and I’m not in questioning mood. Just giving vent to a small squeak of dismay and anger at the numbnuts that inhabit this country. I’d love to try and get one of these fuckers into conversation so I could find out where the hell they’re coming from. Do they have a genuine grievance, or are they just regurgitating hatred they picked up from someone else? Or do they just have a whole lot of anger that needs to be focused on someone, _anyone_…? Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/10 "2004-07-15T14:52:29Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > As to the vile statements and actions of these people we have heard SIMILAR ATTRIBUTED to members of Sinn Fein, SWP etc Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/11 "2004-07-15T14:55:36Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > In certain communities they are the authentic voice of the white working class, we may not like that voice but it is entitled to be heard. They have a fair amount of middle class support too. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/12 "2004-07-15T15:10:53Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I’d love to try and get one of these fuckers into conversation so I could find out where the hell they’re coming from. Do they have a genuine grievance, or are they just regurgitating hatred they picked up from someone else? Or do they just have a whole lot of anger that needs to be focused on someone, _anyone_…? Who knows. I would like to make it clear that I don’t in any way agree with the BNP and indeed would actively fight against them, but I do understand the vein that they are tapping into. It is no suprise that the place that they have achieved their small amount of sucess (bear in mind that this “sucess” is a few councillors at best) have all been ethnically split, economically poor, northern communities. What has happened (IMHO) is that in these communities there is a feeling that the (almost invariably) left wing councils have gone out of their way to provide for the “ethic minorities” and have ignored the white community. This has stoked up a lot of anger amongst the white community and the only people that they feel are representing their interests are the BNP. As other posters have commented the BNP has worked asssidously on its image and has managed to shed some of it’s thuggish associations. It sounds like tonight’s programme may well be a step backwards for them, which is, of course, no bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![cards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cards)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/13 "2004-07-15T15:40:37Z")
Wow. And I thought the racist nut jobs in the U.S. trying to gain wider acceptance was bad. No racist national party in the states has gained that high a percentage of the vote - even in our low turnout elections (at least since George Wallace…and he would argue that his postitions were states rights oriented, not specifically racist…but he gave a lot of cover to racist mentality at the time). ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/14 "2004-07-15T15:51:08Z")
> [@cards](#): > > Wow. And I thought the racist nut jobs in the U.S. trying to gain wider acceptance was bad. No racist national party in the states has gained that high a percentage of the vote - even in our low turnout elections (at least since George Wallace…and he would argue that his postitions were states rights oriented, not specifically racist…but he gave a lot of cover to racist mentality at the time). One possible answer - the USA doesn’t have places with such a concentration of Muslims as the UK North-West does? The BNP targets these areas with their lies. Because they live in the shittiest parts of the shittiest towns in the UK, the areas they are a majority in attract EU and UK urban redevelopment type funds so to the extent that other communities are disadvantaged in this respect it is because the money is going to the poorest areas, which happen to be ethnic areas. When the BNP arguments are examined they invariably are just making shit up anyway. And the right wing press here support them with their own lies and fear mongering. I’m relieved, despite all this, that they have so little support. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/15 "2004-07-15T15:56:46Z")
I don’t know about Muslim areas, but the US certainly has areas where there are high concentrations of other minority groups. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/16 "2004-07-15T15:58:29Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > I don’t know about Muslim areas, but the US certainly has areas where there are high concentrations of other minority groups. Yes - but I doubt they are demonised to anything like the extent immigrants are in the UK by the right and so there are no votes to be chased persecuting them. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/17 "2004-07-15T16:34:56Z")
I posted a while ago on this board, with links to some BNP promotional “videos”. Can’t find the link now, though. And **owlstretchingtime** , I know that that is the sentiment that the BNP are trying to capitalise on. But there is a world of difference between highlighting social injustice, and pushing dog shit through people’s doors. Surely if the BNP had any kind of sense they would realise that a more moderate stance would give them a greater chance of success. Hell, I can kind of see why some white working-class people in, say, Bradford, are feeling aggrieved – there are some real PC loonies on councils in Britain these days, who brazenly fan the flames of racism by their “we mustn’t offend other cultures” attitude. But no, the sort of people that the BNP attracts cannot put their blind hatred to one side in order to actually air their grievances in a civil way. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/18 "2004-07-15T20:34:21Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Yes - but I doubt they are demonised to anything like the extent immigrants are in the UK by the right and so there are no votes to be chased persecuting them. In the mid-1990s there were plenty of votes to be chased by persecuting Latino immigrants in California, for example. This was when the notorious Proposition 187 was passed and Republicans were falling all over each other to out-xenophobe everyone else. I doubt this was an isolated example. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/19 "2004-07-16T01:24:56Z")
In the last few years, the Republican party’s leadership in the Unites States has come to accept that Latin American immigration is what fuels the low-wage labor boom in much of the country. Plus, having lived and worked along the Mexican border much of my life, I can attest that there are certain jobs - at least here - that native born Americans (of whatever “race”) will not apply for - or stay in for long. And it has little to do with wages. Young American people in or straight out of high school people will work in retail sales for $5.50-6.00 an hour but usually not do janitorial work for even slightly higher wages. I know I am generalizing a lot, but this is my personal observation. There is no shortage of anti-immigrant grumbling at the lower echelons of the American “right” (including some blue collar Democrats), but Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo excepted, overt anti-immigrant politics is largely dead on the national level. However, I have heard quite a bit about very bitter local anti-immigrant outbreaks in places like Long Island and parts of the south and midwest where Latin American laborers have rather unexpectedly become a large part of the population. While Latin American immigrants largely fill the service and manual labor market, Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants - including most from Muslim states - are more likely from entrepenurial and professional backgrounds. Do the immigrants in the United Kingdom largely fit into one type of economic category or another? Do immigrants from a specific background fill certain niches (for example do Pakistanis tend to work in \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ while Nigerians tend to work in \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_). Is it now unusual to see a native-born white British person doing janitorial or cleaning work, or manual farm work? Are there jobs that are seen as “immigrant jobs”. Just curious…these economic patterns have a lot to do with how people react to immigration, or percieve it. In some cases immigration is highly visible and in other places, immigrants seem largely unnoticed by most people. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254/20 "2004-07-16T09:43:44Z")
For the Americans interested you can see this fuckwit interviewed on Newsnight > **[BBC Two - Newsnight](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mk25)** > > Comprehensive coverage of the day's important national and international news stories Show as pretty good. Really showed the BNP up to be what is is, a racist bigoted bunch of cunts. Islam is a religion that encourages rape of non-Muslims adn has used rape as a means of growing it’s support base was the hightlight of the idiotic, dangerous and hateful feelings shown. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bnp-a-legitimate-political-party/255254.md?page=2)