# The Bobbsey Twins in the Country **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033 "2005-05-23T02:22:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![La\_Llorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@La\_Llorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/La_Llorona)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/21 "2005-05-26T01:02:44Z")
Nope. They definitely all sit together: > [@](#): > > Freddie and Bert sat near their father on the big soft revolving chairs in the Pullman car, while Nan and Flossie occupied the sofa at the end near their mother. Dinah sat up straight and dignified, and, as Flossie said, really looked nice, in her very clean white waist and her soft black skirt. On her carefully parted hair she wore a neat little black turban. Bert always laughed at the number of “parts” Dinah made in her kinky hair, and declared that she ought to be a civil engineer, she could draw such splendid maps even on the back of her head. And better yet, we find out what that KKK member down the street always thought was true: _black people eat cats_. At least, according to Laura Lee Hope. The following scene occurs after the Bobbsey twins have snuck their black cat, Snoop, onto the train (silly Bobbsey twins! If they weren’t so racist, they’d know that Snoop is a _dog_–or, rather, a d-o-double-g), and the (black) Pullman porter has noticed it. > [@](#): > > “Cat?” exclaimed the good-looking colored man. “Scat! Well, I declare! What you think of that?” > > Freddie felt as if he were going to die, he was so scared, and Flossie’s tears ran down her cheeks. > > “Will he eat him?” Freddie blubbered, thinking of some queer stories he had heard like that. Mr. Bobbsey, too, was a little alarmed and hurried to reach Snoop. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/22 "2005-05-26T03:19:18Z")
I don’t know why you people are surprised by this. This is probably some of the less racist writings of 1907. Blacks are portrayed as being backward but still basically decent people. I suspect that the really racist stuff is much worse. It appears that the re-writing in 1950 was rather superficial, but the new editions of 1961 (with new titles) were more thoroughly re-written. Apparently the editions of 1979 are completely new books with only mild resemblances to previous editions. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/23 "2005-05-26T03:32:39Z")
> [@La Llorona](#): > > _black people eat cats_. Despite having shaken hands with Daisy Bates, I think I’ve heard most junk of this nature, and I’ve never heard anything about eating cats. Perhaps it’s just a kid thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/24 "2005-05-26T03:52:08Z")
I remember reading these books growing up in the 60’s and 70’s. The ones that I had available to me were clearly from the revisions that look to have started in the early 1960’s and removed the dialect and other offensive elements. I can be certain of this because I recall coming across one of the older editions at my grandmother’s house and being shocked at the difference. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/25 "2005-05-26T05:31:41Z")
I had mostly the smaller purple editions, but my “In The Country” was a much larger book and had the sort of hard covers that eventually peeled a shellac - like substance. It’s either in the attic or the crawlspace and I’m not going to look for the copyright date! I do remember the stereotypes clearly and noticing that the first three books seemed to be set in a much earlier period than the purple books. I particularely remember the children making buildings out of “pasteboard” and Bert sleeping in a “chamber”. For another look at a stereotypical maid, grab an original “Tarzan”. Esmerelda was scared of everything! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/26 "2005-05-26T05:57:36Z")
**Cal** , my copy of this book was within reach of the computer! The children on the front are dressed in the garb of kids of the mid 20th Century. But if you look just inside the cover, you will find that the people are dressed in the clothing from about sixty years earlier – whenever muttonchop sleeves were in fasion for women. Using this “colored” dialect was very common then. I kept a ghost story from a newspaper from 1955 until I stopped teaching in 1989. It was from the front page and showed a photograph of a Black child looking wide-eyed up a dark stairway. The caption under the photo was “Who Dat?” I don’t know what African-Americans thought about such dialectic insults then. Most of the white people that I knew just seemed to take it for granted that it was for real. It reminds me of the way people make fun of ignorant Southerners now and believe the hype. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/27 "2005-05-26T20:17:27Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > It reminds me of the way people make fun of ignorant Southerners now and believe the hype. “If your Bobbsey twins end up having Bobbsey kids… you might be a redneck.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/28 "2005-05-26T20:25:27Z")
The disturbing aspect of the bit I quoted wasn’t the Southern/Black dialect, but: 1.) The suggestion that Dianh _really liked_ working in the garden. Of course they did. 2.) Dinah _really liked_ watermelon 3.) And she’d steal to get it. Any individual part is an affectation, but taken together you get a pervasive stereotype. And i agree with others that some stereotyping is still going on, and i can’t defend it. Watching the Chevy Chase/Goldie Hawn/Neil Simon movie **Seems Like Old Times** when it first came out, I had to look at the characters – especially the Hispanic housemaid and the black kid – and ask if this wouldn’t be seen as similarly racist in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/29 "2005-05-26T20:28:34Z")
I loved the Bobsey Twins books. My covers were brightly covered, depicting scenes like the seashore etc. I also read avidly my mother’s Cherry Ames books, as well as Vicki Starr, and Nancy Drew. Who knew that they were all the equivalent of commercial art for the living room? I don’t recall the racism in the books, but stopped reading them early on–I think I was 7 (I was an early and good reader). I moved on to Narnia and Oz etc. I am agog at the blatant racism present in them. And somehow in my head, the Bobbsey twins are all mixed up with Dick and Jane and their ilk. Maybe it was the art work. I know that Dick and Jane had 2 black kids in it–but they were drawn smaller and had racist overtones, IMS. Hey, anyone looked at the Boxcar children recently? Kind of the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/30 "2005-05-26T21:12:55Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Glad you guys let the Indians into town, though. Yeah, but you’d better be out by sundown. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/31 "2005-05-26T21:30:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I don’t doubt that the series is old – but my copy only had copyright daters of 1950 and 1952. It’s usual to include the original copyright date, even if material has been revised. But perhaps things differ on occasion. In any case, it seems likely that this was an updated edition (as has been suggested above), and that this version dates from 1950/2. So it’s not absolved of its language and assumptions. Children’s series from this time are notorious for dropping the original copyright date and omitting other information about revisions and printings. It’s maddening and I’ve never understood why the publishers were so sloppy with this. It even changes from volume to volume within the same edition series – some have the “correct” information as we would expect to see it, and then the next title has only the reprint date (not identified as a reprint, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/32 "2005-05-26T21:33:29Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > It appears that the re-writing in 1950 was rather superficial, but the new editions of 1961 (with new titles) were more thoroughly re-written. Apparently the editions of 1979 are completely new books with only mild resemblances to previous editions. I confirmed last night that my copy of _The Bobbsey Twins’ Adventure in the Country_ (note title change) was published in 1962. If I get a chance tonight I’ll look at the Dinah parts and see if they are markedly different that what’s quoted above. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/33 "2005-05-27T00:59:59Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I don’t recall the racism in the books, but stopped reading them early on–I think I was 7 (I was an early and good reader). I moved on to Narnia and Oz etc. I am agog at the blatant racism present in them. I MEAN blatant racism in the Bobbsey twins books…not Narnia and Oz! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/34 "2005-05-27T01:28:29Z")
Not that there wasn’t subtle racism in Narnia, of course. (Not sure about Oz.) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/35 "2005-05-27T03:07:53Z")
> [@La Llorona](#): > > P.S. Oh, and it gets even worse once you get further into it: > > > [@](#): > > > > “Oh, my lan’ a-massy!” yelled Dinah presently in distress. “Sam Johnson, you jest turn dat hoss around quick,” and she jerked at the reins herself. “You heah, Sam? Quick, I tells you. Get back to dat house. I’se forgot to bring - to bring my lunch basket!” > > > > “Oh, never mind, Dinah,” Mrs. Bobbsey interrupted. “We will have lunch on the train.” > > > > “But I couldn’t leab dat nice lunch I got ready fo’ de chillen in between, missus,” the colored woman urged. “I’ll get it quick as a wink. Now, Sam, you rush in dar quick, and fetch dat red and white basket dat smells like chicken!” > > > > So the good-natured maid had her way, much to the delight of Bert and Freddie, who liked nothing so well as one of Dinah’s homemade lunches. > > Oh, that wacky Dinah! So good-natured. But…“my lan’ a-massy”? Dear Lord! In the 1962 edition, this has been ruthlessly edited to be much more acceptable: > [@](#): > > As they neared the depot, Dinah suddenly gave a little cry. > “What’s the matter?” asked Mr. Bobbsey. > “I left our box of lunch on the kitchen table!” Dinah moaned. “All those good sandwiches!” > “And no food on the train!” Bert spoke up. > Mr. Bobbsey looked at his watch. “We’re almost at the train station now,” he said. “Sam can let us out and then go back for the lunch.” Of course, there is some drama about whether or not Sam is going to make it back before the train leaves, but we don’t hear any more from Dinah in that chapter. The fears about the porter eating the cat are gone too. In fact the porter is replaced by the conductor, and no mention that he is black. And instead of being scared that the cat would be eaten, Freddy and Flossie are worried that the conductor will toss the cat off the train. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/36 "2008-03-09T10:30:24Z")
[QUOTE=La Llorona] P.S. Oh, and it gets even worse once you get further into it: Oh, that wacky Dinah! So good-natured. But…“my lan’ a-massy”? Dear Lord! [/QUOTE] I’ve disciplined students for racist language. But do we believe that these authors got this idea out of the ether? Or were there a number of people they knew at the time like this? Or, was this the prevailing picture because it was comforting to view Blacks as backward and superstitious (try Googling worst baseball superstitions if you think it’s a “Black” thing). Of course, the situation of the American Black at the time (now?) was a direct product of the prevailing attitude and law. America can’t absolve itself of creating the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/37 "2008-03-09T11:54:46Z")
The Bobbsey Twins were one of the first series put out by the Stratemeyer syndicate (which at the time, was mostly just Edward Stratemeyer.) He’d done the Rover Boys and then started the Tom Swift books about the same time as the Bobbsey’s. This was twenty years before he went on to the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew. Both of those famous series have also been updated and in some cases, basically rewritten to get around outdated references and attitudes. In the earliest books, Nancy was a young society miss equally capable at shooting wild animals and ordering around her maid, Hannah. The authorship of the Stratemeyer books was sort of a mass produced ghostwriting group led by Stratemeyer and some of his family members. The various series were updated starting in the 50’s in an effort led by Stratemeyer’s daughter, Harriet. The original text of the Nancy Drew books was reprinted recently, at least the first twenty volumes or so. I don’t think the Hardy Boys or the Bobbseys got reprints. I’m fond of antique children’s books and my Mom had some of the early Bobbsey stuff. I like it as a period piece. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/38 "2008-03-09T12:33:28Z")
I greatly preferred the Tom Swift Jr series. ---
**Author:** ![hocow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hocow/32/4112_2.png) [@hocow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hocow)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/39 "2008-03-09T14:04:50Z")
_BRAAIIINNNNSSS_ ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033/40 "2008-03-09T14:58:24Z")
[QUOTE=hocow] _BRAAIIINNNNSSS_ [/QUOTE] You know, I’d read a book about zombie Bobbsey twins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bobbsey-twins-in-the-country/305033.md?page=1)