# The Borgias (Showtime) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 5, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329 "2011-04-05T23:12:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/1 "2011-04-05T23:12:41Z")
Did anybody catch this? (a little surprised there’s no thread). I’ve Tivo’d it but haven’t watched yet – should I? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/2 "2011-04-05T23:35:46Z")
It was OK. So far its more like the Tudors (which I didn’t like) then Rome (which I liked a lot). It was interesting enough that I’ll watch the next few epsiodes and see how it goes anyways. In any case, nice to see a historical setting thats a little more off the beaten path. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/3 "2011-04-06T00:13:40Z")
I should watch a TV show about the Pope WHY? Yeah, it looks too Tudors-y for me. ---
**Author:** ![JessEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cdc98d/32.png) [@JessEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/4 "2011-04-06T00:14:48Z")
I watched it. Actually, I caught it originally as a preview on my cable system’s on demand service, and I liked the episode enough to rewatch it when it officially premiered on Sunday. I really enjoyed it and plan to keep watching. There were some slow points – the episode does get a bit bogged down with some of the politics – but otherwise I thought it was a nice blend of action bits and historical bits. Plus, it really is just pretty to look at. I love Neil Jordan’s work and he didn’t disappoint with the visuals. I should say that I don’t typically watch tv historical dramas, so I can’t really compare it to _The Tudors_ or anything like that, but I think it’s worth a go, at least for now. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/5 "2011-04-06T00:59:16Z")
> [@fusoya](#): > > I should watch a TV show about the Pope WHY? > > Yeah, it looks too Tudors-y for me. Well, if you think the Pope is evil & rotten, this sounds right up your alley. ---
**Author:** ![RoniaBorkason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RoniaBorkason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoniaBorkason)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/6 "2011-04-06T14:11:51Z")
What I really want for this show is an SCA blog to critique the costuming. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/7 "2011-04-06T14:49:32Z")
I saw the first episode - they had a ceremony when he becomes Pope where he sat on a special stool and a guy (I’m guessing some sort of priest) feels his balls. My wife found this hilarious. Is it historically accurate? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/8 "2011-04-06T15:03:22Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I saw the first episode - they had a ceremony when he becomes Pope where he sat on a special stool and a guy (I’m guessing some sort of priest) feels his balls. My wife found this hilarious. Is it historically accurate? Not sure about the accuracy – based on some need to confirm that the new pope is indeed male; apparently they weren’t concerned about the gender of cardinals. But I don’t think the stool was special – just your basic indoor potty chair, without the pot. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/9 "2011-04-06T15:12:35Z")
Here’s the actual portrait of Giulia Farnese that we saw being painted in the episode: [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lady_with_unicorn_by_Rafael_Santi.jpg) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lady_with_unicorn_by_Rafael_Santi.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/10 "2011-04-06T15:19:11Z")
I watched it, although it was kind of slow and boring at times. I hope it will pick up. I’ve watched most of the historic dramas that have been aired on pay cable channels recently. I really, really loved Rome and watch the rest hoping to catch something as good, but haven’t found it yet. (Incidentally, the write-up of The Borgias on The Onion A.V. Club website describes these shows as “Wikipedia historical fiction.”) ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/11 "2011-04-06T15:24:41Z")
Any episode now, Ezio Auditore da Firenze will sweep in and… Oh, sorry, wrong format. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/12 "2011-04-06T15:34:16Z")
I really liked it, but I’m a sucker for these types of dramas. History be damned! And it’s beautiful. More than one shot bring to mind paintings of that era, especially some of the shots of the women. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/13 "2011-04-06T16:07:08Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Not sure about the accuracy – based on some need to confirm that the new pope is indeed male; apparently they weren’t concerned about the gender of cardinals. But I don’t think the stool was special – just your basic indoor potty chair, without the pot. It’s a myth, based on the legend of Pope Joan. Basically, during their coronation, a few popes sat on these stools with holes on them, but they were probably ancient Roman birthing stools or chamber pots or something like that, and the popes sat on them to say, basically “This is my link to Imperial Rome.” It’s one of those “It’s old, so it must be important” things. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/14 "2011-04-06T17:09:36Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s a myth, based on the legend of Pope Joan. Basically, during their coronation, a few popes sat on these stools with holes on them, but they were probably ancient Roman birthing stools or chamber pots or something like that, and the popes sat on them to say, basically “This is my link to Imperial Rome.” It’s one of those “It’s old, so it must be important” things. I thought that might be the case - seemed just a little too absurd to be true! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/15 "2011-04-06T17:27:56Z")
Watched the first episode and will continue to watch. It is not as good as Rome (so far) but not horrible. We are also watching Mildred Pierce (a great 5 part mini-series - of which 3 parts have aired) and like that a lot better, but I guess that is comparing apples and oranges. Still, will follow Borgias a bit more to see how it goes. Spartacus started off slowly on STARZ and then got really good, so maybe that is the case here as well. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/16 "2011-04-07T19:09:28Z")
Thought the first episode was overly long (imagine the rest of the season will be ~1 hr), but enjoyed it. Reading through Alexander’s Wiki entry, looks like they squeezed a bunch of events from his first years as Pope into his first _days_ as Pope here. Wiki says the groping to check for intact male organs is a myth… “As a consequence (Legend of “Pope Joan”), certain traditions stated that popes throughout the medieval period were required to undergo a procedure wherein they sat on a special chair with a hole in the seat. A cardinal would have the task of putting his hand up the hole to check whether the pope had testicles, or doing a visual examination.[citation needed] This procedure is not taken seriously by most historians, and there is no documented instance. It is probably a scurrilous legend based on the existence of two ancient stone chairs with holes in the seats that probably dated from Roman times and may have been used because of their ancient imperial origins. Their original purpose is obscure.” ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/17 "2011-04-07T19:16:17Z")
I watched it but I keep hearing Jeremy Irons from his role as Claus von Bulow. Pope von Bulow makes me laugh hysterically and miss most of the dialogue so I don’t think I’ll keep watching. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/18 "2011-04-07T20:43:38Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Any episode now, Ezio Auditore da Firenze will sweep in and… > Oh, sorry, wrong format. Everything my friends and I know about the Borgias we learned from Ass Creed. Jeremy Irons is awesome. He emotes so much with his face. After the _Pillars of the Earth_ I keep on waiting for Juan to become an even worse asshole - looking at his actor I just expect it. Cesare and Lucrezia seem to have the most sexual chemistry out of the entire cast :o ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/19 "2011-04-07T20:51:47Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I watched it but I keep hearing Jeremy Irons from his role as Claus von Bulow. Pope von Bulow makes me laugh hysterically Maybe it would help if you think of him as Pope Scar. > [@kushiel](#): > > Cesare and Lucrezia seem to have the most sexual chemistry out of the entire cast. I noticed that too … it must be intentional. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329/20 "2011-04-07T20:55:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I noticed that too … it must be intentional. Well… if the stories are to be believed… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-borgias-showtime/577329.md?page=2)