# The Boston Marathon Bombing Debate Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799 "2013-04-15T23:21:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/41 "2013-04-16T01:10:22Z")
Not to mention that if he’s in the hospital with severe burns, he clearly didn’t do a very good job of reading the “how to bomb stuff” handbook. A sophisticated terror organization would have their shit together a bit more than relying on a 20 year old to drop the backpack and hope he can run fast enough. When organized terrorists strike, they have a purpose. These guys are smart. 9/11 drew us into long, useless wars that cost us billions, devastated our international credibility, and created a whole new generation of people with pretty strong reasons for being pissed at America. It achieved it’s purpose neatly. 9/11 reshaped the world exactly to the terrorist’s liking- a broke and tired America, chunks of the planet that are scared and resentful of us, a new infrastructure of perpetual warfare, and growing support for fundamentalism. WIth these wars winding down and the public in no mood for our next international adventure (which would probably be Iran, which we are going to continue avoid confronting because we know it’s more than we want to deal with), now isn’t a good time for a major attack. The only motivation I can think of would be to try to draw us more overtly into Mali or Nigeria, but that seems unlikely-- I just don’t think we can be convinced to care enough. We’re happy flying drones and gathering intelligence in the region, but I think trying to draw us into a real war is a lost cause at this point. Beyond the technology of the bombs, this is why I think it is a lone wolf. It’s just not the right time for an attack like this to have the intended effect, and the evil masterminds know this. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/42 "2013-04-16T01:12:50Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Not to put too fine a point on it but radical Muslim terrorists are “right wing”. They just attended different churchs. > > Not that I think there is any reason to blame them yet. It’s silly to classify Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaida, or the Iranian government as right-wing or left-wing. They don’t follow the western left-right paradigm. You might as well argue over whether Geronimo or Crazy Horse were right-wing or left-wing. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/43 "2013-04-16T01:13:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Most of the wannabe Jihadist attacks in the US since 911 have been carried out by Americans. The terrorists who struck _on_ 9/11 were pretty Americanized, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/44 "2013-04-16T01:23:58Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Because they’re not the same thing. Muslims are adherents to the religion of Islam; “Islamists” are the subset of that group who believe in Islamic law and that society and government as a whole should be Islamic. (And even “Islamist” doesn’t _necessarily_ equate to “terrorist”–some Islamists try to bring about Islamic Republics or other Islamic states by running for office in elections.) > We clearly can’t rule out Al Qaeda or some “lone wolf” Al Qaeda sympathizer yet, but it’s certainly not true that American domestic extremists don’t stage general attacks on random civilians, or carry out “dual bomb” attacks. [Eric Rudolph](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph) started out with an attack on the Atlanta Olympics (which was _mentioned in the OP_) and also used dual bombs in his later attacks. Which is why I said “almost universally.” Let’s compare lists: AL QAEDA AFFILIATED ATTACKS 1993 WTC Bombing 1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing 2000 USS Cole Bombing 2001 9/11 2001 Richard Reid (Shoe Bomber) 2002 Bali Bombing 2004 Madrid Train Bombing 2005 London Tube Bombing 2009 Underwear Bomber 2010 That FedExing Bombs to US Synagogues Thing RIGHT-WING DOMESTIC TERRORIST 1995 Timothy McVeigh 1996 Atlanta Olympics/Eric Rudoplh 2010 That Guy Who Flew an Airplane into the IRS Building in Texas ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/45 "2013-04-16T01:26:05Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > \I can’t believe it is a conventional “right-wing” terrorist. Sure, crazy people are crazy, so anything’s possible, but attacking a non-specific group of innocent civilians isn’t really in that playbook. And by the same token, “eco-terrorists”, suggested in another post, usually (not always) target property rather than people…this doesn’t seem to fit with their _modus operendi_ either. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/46 "2013-04-16T01:26:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It’s silly to classify Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaida, or the Iranian government as right-wing or left-wing. > > They don’t follow the western left-right paradigm. > > You might as well argue over whether Geronimo or Crazy Horse were right-wing or left-wing. Is there something special about western groups who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/47 "2013-04-16T01:28:50Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Which is why I said “almost universally.” > > Let’s compare lists: > > AL QAEDA AFFILIATED ATTACKS > 1993 WTC Bombing > 1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing > 2000 USS Cole Bombing > 2001 9/11 > 2001 Richard Reid (Shoe Bomber) > 2002 Bali Bombing > 2004 Madrid Train Bombing > 2005 London Tube Bombing > 2009 Underwear Bomber > 2010 That FedExing Bombs to US Synagogues Thing > > RIGHT-WING DOMESTIC TERRORIST > 1995 Timothy McVeigh > 1996 Atlanta Olympics/Eric Rudoplh > 2010 That Guy Who Flew an Airplane into the IRS Building in Texas If you’re going to include all those European attacks, shouldn’t you have the ETA, IRA, and various others on the domestic side as well? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/48 "2013-04-16T01:35:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > \ > > One last thing. I really find it both annoying and obnoxious when people talk about “domestic terrorist groups” and “Muslim terrorists” as if they’re automatically different. > > Most of the wannabe Jihadist attacks in the US since 911 have been carried out by Americans. > > I know people don’t mean anything offensive by categorizing it that way, but when you do so you further the notion that Muslims are somehow more foreign or less American than non-Muslims. > > We’re neither. Yes unfortunately this is the truth, I do not always agree with you but in this case you are absolutely right. There is nothing Un American about being a Muslim, nothing at all. It’s a shame the populace needs to be reminded of this truth from time to time. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/49 "2013-04-16T01:36:10Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > If you’re going to include all those European attacks, shouldn’t you have the ETA, IRA, and various others on the domestic side as well? When posters who speculate about “right-wing domestic terrorists,” they mean the American flavor. So socialist Basque separatist movements (Batasuna) and the socialist IRA really are not, as I’m sure you will agree, very much like the U.S. Tea Party or right-wing militia movement. TL;DR: Oh, OK, good point. Maybe Basque separatists did this. Terrific work, Hans Blix. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/50 "2013-04-16T01:44:59Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > When posters who speculate about “right-wing domestic terrorists,” they mean the American flavor. > > So socialist Basque separatist movements (Batasuna) and the socialist IRA really are not, as I’m sure you will agree, very much like the U.S. Tea Party or right-wing militia movement. Well sure, but your list was pretty clearly calculated to say “Hey look how much more prolific these guys are.” But you were comparing a list of attacks by a myriad of loosely affiliated groups operating across the globe to a single small faction in one country. If you’d just listed the actual attacks in the US by Al Qaeda I wouldn’t have said anything, but then you wouldn’t have had a very interesting comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/51 "2013-04-16T01:49:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If this is domestic terrorism, I hope it turns out to be a **Commie** terrorist for once. Just to prove they still have some life in 'em, this long after the 1970s. Yup, then Obama can use that as an excuse to pass a law called the Boston bombing decree and use it to dissolve the congress, suspend civil liberties and give himself war powers. Then we can invade Poland. The liberal dream is becoming a reality my friend. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/52 "2013-04-16T01:53:54Z")
Our domestic Commie terrorists are largely washed out has-beens, really. Most of the Macheteros not in jail are collecting Social Security. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > When posters who speculate about “right-wing domestic terrorists,” they mean the American flavor. > > So socialist Basque separatist movements (Batasuna) and the socialist IRA really are not, as I’m sure you will agree, very much like the U.S. Tea Party or right-wing militia movement. But since you were comparing who’s more likely to be doing terrorist attacks\* in the US\*, you may want to strike from that list attacks not specifically against US targets (your Islamist/Al-Q thesis still comes out ahead then, BTW). Otherwise if discussing attacks in Madrid you would have to compare Al-Q vs. ETA, when discussing attacks in London you would have to discuss Al-Q vs. IRA in order to ask “Who’s more likely”. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/53 "2013-04-16T01:54:18Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Which is why I said “almost universally.” > > Let’s compare lists: > > AL QAEDA AFFILIATED ATTACKS > 1993 WTC Bombing > 1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing > 2000 USS Cole Bombing > 2001 9/11 > 2001 Richard Reid (Shoe Bomber) > 2002 Bali Bombing > 2004 Madrid Train Bombing > 2005 London Tube Bombing > 2009 Underwear Bomber > 2010 That FedExing Bombs to US Synagogues Thing > > RIGHT-WING DOMESTIC TERRORIST > 1995 Timothy McVeigh > 1996 Atlanta Olympics/Eric Rudoplh > 2010 That Guy Who Flew an Airplane into the IRS Building in Texas not disingenuous at all, lol ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/54 "2013-04-16T01:58:17Z")
There’s not much of a debate here. This feels like an extension of the other thread. Let’s argue about something. Something like, “these events will be used as a reason to take freedoms away, or add more restrictions to the right to own firearms.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/55 "2013-04-16T02:00:13Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > not disingenuous at all, lol Just know that Dick Cheney lives, _lives_, on the inability of liberals to acknowledge uncomfortable facts about terrorism. Every time a liberal says “Maybe it was Basque separatists!”, Dick Cheney’s heart becomes six months younger. It’s like national security version of _Benjamin Button_… ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/56 "2013-04-16T02:07:17Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Just know that Dick Cheney lives, _lives_, on the inability of liberals to acknowledge uncomfortable facts about terrorism. > > Every time a liberal says “Maybe it was Basque separatists!”, Dick Cheney’s heart becomes six months younger. It’s like national security version of _Benjamin Button_… i liked your comment’s first draft better. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/57 "2013-04-16T02:08:21Z")
> [@Randvek](#): > > The terrorists who struck _on_ 9/11 were pretty Americanized, too. I’d strongly disagree with that. I think most of them had never even visited the US prior to coming over to the US, though most had been radicalized in Germany. Yes, they were all fairly well-educated from well-off families, but that’s pretty standard for people in the Middle East who are attracted to radical Islam. It’s not the philosophy of the hoi polloi or the suffering underclass. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/58 "2013-04-16T02:12:12Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Just know that Dick Cheney lives, _lives_, on the inability of liberals to acknowledge uncomfortable facts about terrorism. > > Every time a liberal says “Maybe it was Basque separatists!”, Dick Cheney’s heart becomes six months younger. It’s like national security version of _Benjamin Button_… Are you being intentionally disingenuous? I never suggested it might be Basques, just that your comparison list was flawed in an important fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/59 "2013-04-16T02:12:37Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Is there something special about western groups who > favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions? People don’t refer to the IRA, Al-Fatah, the PKK, or the ETA as “right-wing”. Also, neither the Hezbollah nor the Iranian government has ever suggested criminalizing other religious groups. As for “ethnic groups”, Al-Quaeda, Hamas, and the Hezbollah have all made it clear they are cosmopolitan movements not nationalist movements. In fact, the Arabs in the Hezbollah pledge their loyalty to a Persian. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799/60 "2013-04-16T02:13:54Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Which is why I said “almost universally.” > > Let’s compare lists: > > AL QAEDA AFFILIATED ATTACKS > 1993 WTC Bombing > 1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing > 2000 USS Cole Bombing > 2001 9/11 > 2001 Richard Reid (Shoe Bomber) > 2002 Bali Bombing > 2004 Madrid Train Bombing > 2005 London Tube Bombing > 2009 Underwear Bomber > 2010 That FedExing Bombs to US Synagogues Thing > > RIGHT-WING DOMESTIC TERRORIST > 1995 Timothy McVeigh > 1996 Atlanta Olympics/Eric Rudoplh > 2010 That Guy Who Flew an Airplane into the IRS Building in Texas You left out the whackjob who [shot a bunch of people at a Unitarian church in Knoxville, Tennessee in 2008](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting) because he wanted to kill all the liberals. And, since we’re including Bali and Madrid and London, we also have to include [Anders Breivik](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik). (There’s also the Unambomber, but he’d probably have to go on a third, completely separate list.) No one is saying that the Boston marathon was bombed by Basque separatists. And on one is saying it couldn’t possibly have been Muslim radicals. All we’re saying is that the argument that it couldn’t possibly have been American right-wing extremists because, gosh, they don’t just kill a bunch of random people (or plant _two_ bombs) is bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boston-marathon-bombing-debate-thread/655799.md?page=4)