# The Bourne Supremacy... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 22, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280 "2004-07-22T02:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zahara2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/53a042/32.png) [@zahara2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zahara2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/21 "2004-07-23T00:10:33Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > I much preferred Ultimatum to Supremacy, since it went back more to the feel and focus of Identity. Really? Hmm…I might reconsider then… ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/22 "2004-07-23T00:40:29Z")
I’m definitely taking in the midnight showing tonight. Six more hours… I can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/23 "2004-07-23T00:42:56Z")
I am looking forward to seeing it too. I am so hoping that when the bills are paid we have enough to get to see a matinee on Saturday. I also want to see Spiderman 2, the most recent Harry Potter, and The Notebook, but not until I see Bourne Supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![zahara2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/53a042/32.png) [@zahara2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zahara2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/24 "2004-07-23T02:05:35Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I’m definitely taking in the midnight showing tonight. Six more hours… I can’t wait. My luck. I wanted to see the midnight show in Georgetown but I think I’ve come down with Strep. Throat is bright red, nose is red, eyes are red. Can’t swallow anything and eyes are itchy. This sucks. I’m going to bed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/25 "2004-07-23T04:06:47Z")
I went to the theatre tonight to see I, Robot (because neither of us can stay up that late tonight with work and such tomorrow) and got to see Supremecy for free! Woo Ha! Some Mexican radio station was giving out free passes. Sweet. It was a good movie and I think it stands on its own. Just know that he was a highly trained assassin and that he has amnesia and you’ll be fine. It doesn’t address that in the beginning of the movie. Good times. -Mike ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/26 "2004-07-23T09:51:48Z")
Just got back in about twenty minutes ago and I thoroughly enjoyed the movie although it wasn’t quite the masterpiece I had built it up to be in my mind. I can’t decide what was more surprising about the movie… that Marie was killed off so early in the film with such little fanfare or that Julia Stiles can actually act. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/27 "2004-07-23T12:41:34Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > The car chase scenes in the trailer look excellent. We were watching TV last night, and the commercial came on, and about half of it showed the car careening around town, crashing through stuff, and I say “he’s an excellent driver”, and my wife says, with perfect timing, “I’m definitely an excellent driver. Yeah. I drive slow on the train tracks.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/28 "2004-07-25T05:05:01Z")
Re; the car chase. Isn’t it a good thing that Russia has no safety regulations for its cars, so none of them have working airbags! The movie was a huge disappointment compared to the first. I liked Identity because it was mostly a battle of wits and daring, with the movie implausibilities kept to an absolute minimum. And the addition of Marie’s character humanized the otherwise robotic Bourne. None of this is true in Supremacy. Almost everything that happens is either unexplained or happens with ridiculous ease. The car chase in Paris was barely possible as a real life event; the one in Moscow is pure movie. As are all of Bourne’s escapes. The only scene that stood out was the fight in the other Treadstone guy’s apartment. It approached Jackie Chan standards for making best use of available implements in a fight. Supremacy won’t take away IQ points like most of the rest of this year’s summer movies, but the best way to describe it is as a beautifully wrapped package with nothing inside. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/29 "2004-07-25T06:22:02Z")
I went and saw it today. Did anyone else have problems with the incredible jerkiness of the camera? I had to look down during the car chase, it was making me sick to my stomach. I don’t know what the film maker was going for, but making a paying movie goer look AWAY from the screen seems like a bad idea. The first one was definitely better! ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/30 "2004-07-25T12:18:03Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > The movie was a huge disappointment compared to the first. I liked Identity because it was mostly a battle of wits and daring, with the movie implausibilities kept to an absolute minimum. And the addition of Marie’s character humanized the otherwise robotic Bourne. Thank you. That is exactly what the problem was. In Identity there so much less suspension of disbelief than in Supremacy. There is also no real payoff for the audience in Supremacy. In Identity we find out Bourne doesn’t kill his target because of the small child, the fact that his first assignment was in Berlin and he killed the wife as well as the husband is not anywhere nearly as satisfying. The entire scene in the daughter’s apartment was unsatisfying in the extreme. In Identity we got to see Bourne plan and react. The bank where he takes the evacuation plan from the wall so he has an understanding of how the building is set up. Then using that understanding to go out on the ledge and hid under it, then go down the outside of building. This kind of using his wits is missing entirely from Supremacy. Getting on the train is the only thing that comes close, but that still doesn’t work as well. I knew when he took the evacuation plan what he was doing, until he steps on the train again, I didn’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/31 "2004-07-25T12:20:28Z")
hid = hide The bank = In the bank, ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/32 "2004-07-25T15:56:20Z")
> [@Glory](#): > > I went and saw it today. Did anyone else have problems with the incredible jerkiness of the camera? I had to look down during the car chase, it was making me sick to my stomach. I don’t know what the film maker was going for, but making a paying movie goer look AWAY from the screen seems like a bad idea. Yup- I thought the DP came from [Dogme 95](http://www.dogme95.dk/menu/menuset.htm). At first they filmed the CIA guys in _Cops-_ cam, but then they really went nuts at the end. Did enjoy the first person car wrecks though 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dancer\_Flight](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dancer_flight/32/7601_2.png) [@Dancer\_Flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancer_Flight)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/33 "2004-07-25T16:53:05Z")
> [@Glory](#): > > I went and saw it today. Did anyone else have problems with the incredible jerkiness of the camera? I had to look down during the car chase, it was making me sick to my stomach. I don’t know what the film maker was going for, but making a paying movie goer look AWAY from the screen seems like a bad idea. > > The first one was definitely better! I had a problem with that all through the film. I think it is a matter of directorial laziness. In the first movie you do not have nearly as many jump cuts in the fight scenes or the car chase so you have a sense of who is doing what and the fact that the actors do know what they are doing, in _Supremacy_ the action is interrupted by camera blurs and jump cuts, **grrrr**. -DF ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/34 "2004-07-25T17:15:10Z")
You’re right, **Dancer\_Flight**. Cuts so fast-paced that you can’t tell who is doing what to whom have become a real problem in movies, although evidently this director was hired because he likes to work that way. It’s even more of a problem in CGI movies. I thought the first Spider-Man movie was wreaked because the fight scenes between Spidey and the Green Goblin were undecipherable. A blur of thrown punches is not as interesting as thrust and parry, as every old sword fight director knew. Same with the car chase in Moscow. I had no reason to care about the 500 random cars crashing into each other and making them a blur didn’t make the scene better in any way. Of course, I had no reason to care about any of the characters in the movie at any time, including Bourne, who appeared to be doing an imitation of the Terminator with his indestructibleness. That’s the real laziness on the director’s part. If movies aren’t about their characters, they aren’t about anything. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/35 "2004-07-25T19:19:32Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > The only scene that stood out was the fight in the other Treadstone guy’s apartment. It approached Jackie Chan standards for making best use of available implements in a fight. I was actually thumbing through an MA book in the bookstore about weapons, and one section on improvised weapons included the use of a rolled up magazine. IIRC, the author advocated thrusting rather than trying to use it as a club. Honestly, from what I could tell, I didn’t think the fight scene was very well done at all. It was hard to tell because the camera work was so poorly done. It reminded me of a newer Steven Segal movie I saw on television (yeah, I was that bored) where all appearances suggested that he has let himself slip so far that they had to substitute incoherent camera work to compensate for his lost ability. The shakey-camera shtick really ruined the movie. I’ll admit that ground fighting may not be the most popular vehicle for communicating conflict to a movie audience; but that’s no reason to let a fight end with a move that anybody with a few months of judo or bjj experience would have gotten out of with complete ease. It’s almost insulting. Apart from the shoddy camera work destroying the movie, something that really got on my nerves was the method of setting up Bourne. Why would an uberassassin have two explosives set right next to each other, so that if the clock weren’t synchronized to just a few milliseconds, the second explosive would have been blown clear and away from its target? Not to mention the whole fingerprint bit. One big perfect thumbprint right in the middle of an otherwise pristine surface—right, because the assassin couldn’t afford a pair of gloves with _two_ thumbs on them. The thing is that the other annoyances (my other big one being that too many elements seemed tied together too nicely, not spoiler worthy) wouldn’t have been such a bother if the camera work had been better. Sometimes it looked as if the camera was supposed to simulate walking, but when I walk or drive my brain compensates for the bouncyness. My brain is in sync w/ my body and adjusts accordingly; but it can’t do that with a movie and it just ends up looking like shit. Even non-action scenes were often incoherent because of the way the camera was operating. I think it would have been a pretty good flick if that bouncy camera bit wasn’t added. But because of it, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy154](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ad7895/32.png) [@quiltguy154](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy154)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/36 "2004-07-25T19:53:10Z")
Just saw _Supremacy_ and enjoyed it. Not quite as good as the first[but damn close] since some of the history is already known, lessening the novelty factor.[I haven’t read any of the books-BTW, how many are there?] More fast-paced than the first, and I agree about the “unusual” camera work on the car chases. Plot twists also came fast and furious. It’s a very dark movie, literally, not many footcandles of illumination to be had. Some scenes were difficult to appreciate due to such low light. Since this movie is called “The Bourne Supremacy”, does it indicate that there won’t be/can’t be any more? Definitely would recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/37 "2004-07-25T22:02:44Z")
> [@quiltguy154](#): > > Since this movie is called “The Bourne Supremacy”, does it indicate that there won’t be/can’t be any more? Definitely would recommend it. Nope, there’s a third book, Bourne Ultimatum, which will hopeful also have a movie companion. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/38 "2004-07-25T23:15:46Z")
I don’t think it’s fully explained why Bourne would use his own passport to get noticed in Naples. Is it so that he could listen to the phone calls about him and find out whom he was dealing with? Then, why would he use his own passport at the hotel so that the police could come in and make him climb the drainpipe to escape? I thought the movie lacked an emotional ending. Identity gave you “It’s over, he met a great woman, and they’ve started their own life away from the madness. Aaahhhh.” This one didn’t have the plot intricacies, the mystery, or the “doneness” feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/39 "2004-07-25T23:22:07Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Then, why would he use his own passport at the hotel so that the police could come in and make him climb the drainpipe to escape? > . I don’t think he used his Jason Bourne passport at the hotel. He was recognized by a police description and then the hotel staff compared the picture to his Passport (the photos matched, but I don’t think the names matched). ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280/40 "2004-07-25T23:46:39Z")
> [@Glory](#): > > I went and saw it today. Did anyone else have problems with the incredible jerkiness of the camera? I had to look down during the car chase, it was making me sick to my stomach. I don’t know what the film maker was going for, but making a paying movie goer look AWAY from the screen seems like a bad idea. > > The first one was definitely better! I agree. I am so sick of hand-held camera techniques! We get the point. This is a tense, action-packed film. Now clamp the camera down, for Og’s sake! I’ll move my eyes! I certainly don’t remember The Bourne Identity being this herky-jerky! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bourne-supremacy/256280.md?page=3)