# The Boy Scouts Still Thinking of the Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549 "2012-07-17T18:25:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/21 "2012-07-17T20:44:51Z")
I wonder if there is enough general distaste for the policy for some other non-sanctioned scouting organization to start, taking with it all the people who don’t support the policy (and their money). ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/22 "2012-07-17T20:45:58Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Because now they’re a hate group, as far as I’m concerned. This is not a new thing - every since the Dale decision it has been official, but even before that gays and lesbians could not be open leaders. This is just the most recent statement in a response to an attempt to make changes. Two members of the board have gone on public record as wanting a change, and the lesbian mom in Cub Scouts that got kicked out recently after someone narced on her brought it back into the news. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/23 "2012-07-17T20:46:01Z")
I don’t know. When I was a kid my parents refused to let me participate in various common activities because of _their_ beliefs/politics/agenda/etc. It didn’t scar me for life or anything, but I did miss out. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/24 "2012-07-17T20:48:32Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > If you acknowledge a bunch of benefits, why don’t you let him join? Just tell him that you don’t agree with all aspects of their mission statement or whatever. Consider it a teachable moment. I’m sure there are atheist parents who let their kids join and tell them to gloss over the “reverent” part. Hope that he doesn’t turn out atheist and get kicked out entirely for being honest, then. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/25 "2012-07-17T20:48:34Z")
Camp Fire USA is now coed (though it started out as Camp Fire Girls). > [@](#): > > As the first nonsectarian, interracial organization for girls in the United States, Camp Fire takes pride in its long-standing commitment to providing fun programs and services to all children and families in America. We are inclusive, open to every person in the communities we serve, welcoming children, youth and adults regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, sexual orientation or other aspect of diversity. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/26 "2012-07-17T20:55:27Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I wonder if there is enough general distaste for the policy for some other non-sanctioned scouting organization to start, taking with it all the people who don’t support the policy (and their money). The Boy Scouts have a brand that is hard to beat. Campfire is out there, and Spiral Scouts tried to get going to and is successful in some areas. There is also the Baden Powell Scouts for people who think that the BSA has gotten too wimpy and is no longer strong enough outdoors oriented (I tend to agree on that - but I can manage it within my unit). The challenge is that Eagle is still a very strong, positive brand. The US Military gives you an extra rank when you enlist. It is a point on college applications. etc. etc. etc. This is why I am fighting from within - the bigots will NOT chase me out, but in the meantime I have to tell people that I don’t support this policy. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/27 "2012-07-17T21:01:46Z")
As to it not being a new thing, it’s the confrontation with having the Dudeling that makes a difference. Hard to describe (being new to it and all), but the question of what I would/wouldn’t do in the situation had very little teeth and very little hold on my imagination. Yes, if directly asked I could have had a conversation and could have felt the hypothetical, but like many other possible choices out there it really wasn’t all that close to home. Don’t Cub Scouts join in elementary school? Old enough to know that ‘fag’ is wrong, but not old enough to understand the implications of the moral choice. I’m not even close to the time when that’s actually going to be upon me, but I can’t imagine that seven or eight is old enough to make such moral choices. And it is a moral choice. I can appreciate fighting from within, and as I said upthread the generalized agnosticism and okay with the ‘reverence’ bit may make me a hypocrite. But we all draw lines somewhere. I’m sorry if it’s a bit cliche, but if the decision came down that it’s a whites-only organization, the “no, that’s not something we’re going to patronize” decision would be the same. Checking age requirements, it looks like there are four to seven years left for them to change their policies. ETA: The whole race analogy above was not meant in any way to impugn someone who made a different choice than I. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/28 "2012-07-17T21:20:08Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The challenge is that Eagle is still a very strong, positive brand. > The US Military gives you an extra rank when you enlist. It is a point on college applications. etc. etc. etc. This is why I am fighting from within - the bigots will NOT chase me out, but in the meantime I have to tell people that I don’t support this policy. Screw changing from within. We need to change this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/29 "2012-07-17T22:52:12Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > If you acknowledge a bunch of benefits, why don’t you let him join? Just tell him that you don’t agree with all aspects of their mission statement or whatever. Consider it a teachable moment. I’m sure there are atheist parents who let their kids join and tell them to gloss over the “reverent” part. I’m the mother of two. My daughter is in Girl Scouts and I’m a Girl Scout leader. I did not permit my son to join Boy Scouts. Scouting is a club that has, as its primary objective, instilling values and building character. Hypocrisy is not a value I want to foster in my agnostic “I’d have to pledge something I don’t believe in” son. I don’t want him to learn “hey, its a great club, except for that whole discrimination thing.” The values I want him to learn are honesty, openness, and inclusiveness - values policies the Boy Scouts have contradict (or he’d need to personally ignore to join), in addition to other great values the Boy Scouts does continue to teach. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/30 "2012-07-17T23:28:05Z")
This is a tough call. Ignorance is the issue here. Apparently, the BSA equal Gays with boys as targets. Pedophiles \<\> Homosexuals. I think I told the story of NAMBLA a while back. Boy Scouts are a target, but NAMBLA members are not homosexuals, they are pedophiles. The BSA supported a rule but targeted the incorrect group. Ignorance reigns supreme ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/31 "2012-07-17T23:35:14Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Well, I’m pleased to note that Scouts Canada has no such policy or belief, so if, at the appropriate age, Junior is keen to join I can go ahead and sign him up. > > This story makes me bummed for little boys in the US though. ☹ Same as Australia (jeez the similarities between Aus and Canada still continue to amaze me), I am glad that we are not so church focused as the BSA is. BSA IMO has lost sight of what Scouting is about and seems to have been taken over by religious groups who are pushing their own agendas. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/32 "2012-07-17T23:39:09Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m the mother of two. My daughter is in Girl Scouts and I’m a Girl Scout leader. I did not permit my son to join Boy Scouts. Scouting is a club that has, as its primary objective, instilling values and building character. Hypocrisy is not a value I want to foster in my agnostic “I’d have to pledge something I don’t believe in” son. I don’t want him to learn “hey, its a great club, except for that whole discrimination thing.” The values I want him to learn are honesty, openness, and inclusiveness - values policies the Boy Scouts have contradict (or he’d need to personally ignore to join), in addition to other great values the Boy Scouts does continue to teach. I would look at the local level and really see what the impact is especially if it is sponsored by a progressive church or other non religious group, sometimes things are not as wish them to be at the board level but that does not rule out being involved at the local level. yes some will say you are supporting a hate group [really WTF] but I don’t see it that way. Scouting is a great education and sometimes change comes from within. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/33 "2012-07-17T23:50:10Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > . . . and a Brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow. And this is **not** a gay organization?! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/34 "2012-07-18T00:23:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And this is **not** a gay organization?! 😕 They is nothing gay about a organization that requires you to endure ritual hazing, sleeping in the woods without any gear with a bunch of men and not saying a word to anyone. Well unless you’ve watched that porno. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/35 "2012-07-18T00:43:18Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > My kid is going to miss out on a right of passage because of the gay agenda > > You bastards. You unholy, cursed, buggeryboos and your cursed existence. Because you dare _exist_, no, wait, not just exist, but because you want to participate in everyday life, my kid can’t join the Boy Scouts. No Cub Scout Jamboree, no Pinewood Derby Race for him, no Blue and Gold banquet, no Weblows Order of the Arrow, no merit badges, no Scout Camp, no learning and experiencing the great range of joys and pains that is scouting. > I’m surprisingly ripped up inside. I honestly had such grand expectations for him, though I didnt’ really recognize them until I read the news story earlier today. Not aspirations that he’d necessarily go on to Eagle or whatever, just that he’d get to participate and taste some of the greatness of being a boy. I know I can take him camping on my own, teach him all sorts of things … but no Scouting? There’s an emptiness there. Yes, he’ll be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent. But it won’t mean the same thing. > > Heck, I could have gotten his agnostic (or, what I assume to be agnostic) ass through. I kinda get the whole spiritual side of things. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite and this is several years too late. But whatever. > > I’m so, so sorry son. You won’t be joining the Scouts. Because those people just want to exist. My sons are both scouts and none of what you describe exists within their pack. They are not deprived and methinks you are overtstating matters. I have to ask, at the risk of being shot down in flames: what is wrong with not allowing overt gays into the scouting ranks as leaders? Isn’t this a prevention measure against the Jerry Sandusky’s of the world? Wouldn’t you be pissed a million times over if a gay scout leader molested your child? I am not saying that many or any would do that, but…wouldn’t you want to be certain? Doesn’t this smack of gay catholic priests and the trust that was afforded them when anyone could see if they cared to look that abuse was rampant and condoned? Isn’t this just a case of the BSA protecting themselves from such matters? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/36 "2012-07-18T00:48:33Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I have to ask, at the risk of being shot down in flames: what is wrong with not allowing overt gays into the scouting ranks as leaders? **Isn’t this a prevention measure against the Jerry Sandusky’s of the world?** Wouldn’t you be pissed a million times over if a gay scout leader molested your child? You really need to label your parody better; I almost missed it except for the bolded statement. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/37 "2012-07-18T00:51:03Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > You really need to label your parody better; I almost missed it except for the bolded statement. 😛 I try, and I keed because I wish to be converted to teh ghey. Oh, and because I love. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/38 "2012-07-18T00:52:25Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I try, and I keed because I wish to be converted to teh ghey. Oh, and because I love. You’re just in it for the toaster… oh wait, I think the “convert-er” gets that. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/39 "2012-07-18T01:01:49Z")
> [@](#): > > The US Military gives you an extra rank when you enlist. It is a point on college applications. etc. etc. etc. :eek: I had to read that sentence twice, to be sure. I am agog to learn this. Truly? An extra rank? A point on a college admission? Seriously? For being a Boy Scout! What if your family didn’t live where there was a troop? Tough darts, I suppose. Wow! I had no idea. I never cease to be amazed at the things a person can learn around here! ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549/40 "2012-07-18T01:03:37Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > :eek: > > I had to read that sentence twice, to be sure. I am agog to learn this. Truly? An extra rank? A point on a college admission? Seriously? For being a Boy Scout! > > What if your family didn’t live where there was a troop? Tough darts, I suppose. > > Wow! I had no idea. > > I never cease to be amazed at the things a person can learn around here! For Eagle Scout - not “just” Boy Scout. Though some schools now look for Eagle PLUS Senior Patrol Leader (senior boy in the Troop). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-boy-scouts-still-thinking-of-the-children/628549.md?page=3)