# The Brit is 'Tommy', the German 'Fritz', the Russian 'Ivan', the American...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427 "2015-07-28T22:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/21 "2015-07-31T01:54:57Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I don’t know if it pre- or post-dated the comic, but, IIRC, there is some iconic 'bedraggled-dogface-tired-but-still-willing-to-keep-plugging-for-democracy-etc…" speech that some GI made to some babe (in a movie?) where he says “I’m just your average GI Joe…” Joe being a generic term for ‘guy’. To further confuse the matter, there was a cartoonist named Bill Mauldin, who started working for “Stars and Stripes” around 1940, and created the comic “Willie and Joe” which was hugely popular with the soldiers. W&J were GIs. **handsomeharry** , I can’t find your speech, yet, but I’m going to keep looking. Where is Unca Cecil when you need him? Bill Mauldin IMdB page: [Bill Mauldin - Biography - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0560887/bio?ref_=nm_dyk_trv_sm#trivia) Bill Mauldin Wikipedia page: [Bill Mauldin - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mauldin) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/22 "2015-07-31T02:52:09Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I don’t know if it pre- or post-dated the comic, but, IIRC, there is some iconic 'bedraggled-dogface-tired-but-still-willing-to-keep-plugging-for-democracy-etc…" speech that some GI made to some babe (in a movie?) where he says “I’m just your average GI Joe…” Joe being a generic term for ‘guy’. on the way to Kokomo. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/23 "2015-07-31T03:15:21Z")
The full name of Tommy was Tommy Atkins, of long lineage although most famous through Kipling’s: _I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer, The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.” The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I: O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”; But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,_ Bar-girls were silly little things back in the '90s… Anyway, speaking of war cartoonists, I noticed that **[Bruce Bairnsfather](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bairnsfather)**’s \* famous WWI character Old Bill is claimed here by the Americans in this **[edition](http://www.art.com/products/p12362949-sa-i1734214/bruce-bairnsfather-wwi-poster-well-if-you-knows-of-a-better-ole-go-to-it.htm)** of “\*\* Well, If You Knows of a Better 'Ole, Go to It !\*\*” The breadcrumb trail is: _SHOP \> world culture \> north american cultures \> united states culture \> united states history \> world war i_ Sometimes one despairs of the internet. Oddly enough Bairnsfather _did_ become official cartoonist to the American forces in Europe, but that was WWII, not the previous episode. - Wouldn’t all fathers be the fathers of bairns ? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/24 "2015-07-31T18:44:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I find it odd that in the old cartoons, we’re supposed to empathize more with Jerry the mouse over Tom the cat… but in the wars, we sided with Tommy against Jerry. “Tom and Jerry” as a phrase refers back much further: [http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/03/28/tom-jerrys-life-in-london/](http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/03/28/tom-jerrys-life-in-london/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/25 "2015-07-31T18:59:26Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > - Wouldn’t all fathers be the fathers of bairns? Yes, but they don’t all openly acknowledge it to the world like that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/26 "2015-07-31T20:20:33Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Back then, apart from the common Anglo names, Jack, John, Will etc. etc., _specifically_ American male names included Otis, Earl, Alvin, Glen, Willard, Lowell, Clyde and Harvey. > In fact I remember some thriller where for a cover story someone was advised to blame a crooked American quartermaster named Harvey, on the grounds that every base had a crooked American quartermaster named Harvey. Recalls to mind a thing I saw long ago, drawn by the prolific British cartoonist Rowland Emett (1906 – 1990); most renowned for cartoons of crazy and highly elaborate machines a la the style of America’s Rube Goldberg (sp?), and of doings on comical branch-line railways – but he also drew cartoons on many other themes. This one, from the World War II era, showed a scene of the local lord and lady of the manor entertaining a group of servicemen from the local US military base, with everyone trying hard, to be as nice to each other as possible. The caption has the lady-of saying, “Now for an interesting social experiment we’ve thought up. Earl and Chester here, will make for Edwin [the butler] a Pimms No. 1 [English “cocktail” long favoured by the upper classes]; while he makes them a mint julep.” ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427/27 "2015-07-31T20:24:07Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > “Tom and Jerry” as a phrase refers back much further: > [http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/03/28/tom-jerrys-life-in-london/](http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/03/28/tom-jerrys-life-in-london/) These fellows – Tom, Jerry, and Bob Logic – get a brief “walk-on” appearance in George MacDonald Fraser’s novel _Black Ajax_, about the bare-knuckle boxing scene in England in the very early 19th century. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-brit-is-tommy-the-german-fritz-the-russian-ivan-the-american/726427.md?page=1)