# The British called. They want their guns back. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 18, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818 "2009-01-18T03:17:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Neverender](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/848f3c/32.png) [@Neverender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neverender)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/41 "2009-01-19T22:29:31Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Police in the UK depends a lot more on the community ties than the US. And in anycase if Armed backup is needed then it can be there in about 2 mins. In London maybe, on New Years eve there was a massive brawl in the streets outside a club in Huddersfield after a shooting, and apparently it took police at least 10 minutes to respond. So glad I went out back home in Chesterfield for NYE! ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/42 "2009-01-19T22:36:36Z")
Leave me and my gun alone. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/43 "2009-01-19T23:03:34Z")
> [@Neverender](#): > > In London maybe, on New Years eve there was a massive brawl in the streets outside a club in Huddersfield after a shooting, and apparently it took police at least 10 minutes to respond. > > So glad I went out back home in Chesterfield for NYE! Hah hah, yeah, all the armed teams were in Bradford and Leeds ready for it all to kick off 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/44 "2009-01-19T23:19:01Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > My point was that it seems that British people are quite happy for Americans to comment on British laws; we (at least in this thread) do not resort to petty insults that ignore any substantive points raised (“busy-body blabbermouths”) when said Americans disagree with us. Did you feel insulted? What made you think I was referring to you specifically? Do you have a history here on the SDMB, or something? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/45 "2009-01-19T23:39:09Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Martin doesn’t command sympathy from people who know the facts of the case. > > From Peter Morris’ helpful link in post 2 of this thread: > > - the gun was unlicensed (because Martin had previously fired a gun at a man stealing his apples) > - both the original jury and the Appeal Court found he used excessive force > - he gave no warning and shot one intruder in the back > - after killing the first man he then drove around (armed) looking for the second intruder > - Martin also had Rottweiller dogs guarding his property I like the last part. Like somehow THATS the straw that broke the camels back. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/46 "2009-01-20T00:07:45Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Leave me and my gun alone. Nobody has said anything about you, or your gun. Are you sure you’re in the right thread? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/47 "2009-01-20T03:38:33Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I say let Britain decide what it wants to do internally with guns. > > I just wish they’d reciprocate the courtesy and put a muzzle on their busy-body blabbermouths who feel the need to tell _us_ what to do with _our_ guns. I suppose pro-gun Brit busybodies are free to blabber away, though? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/48 "2009-01-20T03:56:31Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I suppose pro-gun Brit busybodies are free to blabber away, though? :dubious: As long as their blathering about _internal_ British politics, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/49 "2009-01-20T04:23:56Z")
In that case, why are you commenting on a thread about British gun ownership? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/50 "2009-01-20T08:41:02Z")
> [@turner](#): > > For a board as liberal as this one, that’s a pretty interesting statement, as the same could be said for American Jim Crow laws, slavery laws, the anti-semitic laws of the Nazis, etc. > > Just because a government does something, doesn’t make it right. This is one of the hazards of a representative democracy (that is outweighed by its many benefits). This is why voting on issues rather than feelings is important. A vigalent, educate constituancy is necessary for a successful and free people to exist. Interestingly, my understanding is that the laws limiting the use of force in the protection of private property were a significant milestone in the history of democratic law reform in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/51 "2009-01-20T09:52:17Z")
Just to make clear, if you are a homeowner and you are in mortal danger you can use whatever force is necessary to protect yourself. If you shoot someone in the back while they are running away it’s (rightly, IMO) seen as excessive force; if you shoot someone while they are runing towards you with a knife, chances are you’ll not be prosecuted. The law is clear - you are allowed “reasonable” force to defend you and your family - and there are plenty of examples where that has been the case. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/52 "2009-01-20T11:49:20Z")
and to add to the previous post, [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1415373/Burglar-lawfully-killed-by-homeowner.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1415373/Burglar-lawfully-killed-by-homeowner.html) [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1470937/Farmer-who-shot-suspect-burglar-is-not-charged.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1470937/Farmer-who-shot-suspect-burglar-is-not-charged.html) > **[This is London Magazine](https://www.thisislondontickets.co.uk/)** > > This is London magazine has been established for over 65 years, providing readers with information about events, exhibitions, music, concerts, theatre and dining. As life returns to normal, Londoners are heading back into the Capital and many... > **[The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News](https://news.sky.com/)** > > Sky News delivers breaking news, headlines and top stories from business, politics, entertainment and more in the UK and worldwide. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homeowners-can-kill-burglars-in-selfdefence-government-says-483154.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homeowners-can-kill-burglars-in-selfdefence-government-says-483154.html) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/53 "2009-01-20T12:07:57Z")
> [@garius](#): > > You got a cite for this anywhere? I certainly don’t remember seeing any cops with guns who weren’t the normal ARUs and I’m practically on “Murder Mile.” > > Not doubting you personally. I just find that frankly, whilst Hackney has problems, many are more to do with lazy journalism than anything else and I suspect this might be the same. > > The kids on my Estate didn’t even realise they were one of those evil hoody-wearing [postcode gangs](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6304345.stm) until a Daily Mail journalist turned up and told them they were. :rolleyes: Was told by a Met officer. It was only for a few days, something about a late night football tournament going on. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/54 "2009-01-20T12:23:38Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > As long as their blathering about _internal_ British politics, sure. Please. On this site people talk, debate and argue about policies of numerous governments all over the world. The only real reason to dismiss someone IMO is when they are grossly ignorant about what they are talking about and not willing to learn or at least understand the issues they are talking about. Nobody is making law on this site and we are free to talk about anything. The only thing that annoys me about these kinds of threads is when people put their own countrys experiences and social values on another country. Brits/Irish etc. have been guilty of dismissing the pro-gun lobby in the US because of the nature of the gun issue over here and not taking into account the vastly differnt culture and history of the US. Americans have been guilty of the opposite and have agrued their case from a US POV without considering or trying to understand that the arguments are different over here. Honest debate is always useful and educational to the readers of thrads, you shouldn’t be dismissed or dismiss people just because they are from a different country. It’s lazy and insulting and completely out of place on this site. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/55 "2009-01-20T14:52:14Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Nobody has said anything about you, or your gun. Are you sure you’re in the right thread? I had a really bad migraine when I posted this; if would have bitten the head off a kitten if I had one handy at the time. My apologies; I didn’t mean to defecate on the thread. I still have the migraine, it just isn’t as bad today. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/56 "2009-01-20T18:12:41Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Did you feel insulted? What made you think I was referring to you specifically? Do you have a history here on the SDMB, or something? I did not think you were referring to me specifically and I have no “dog in this hunt”. Let’s start again: In this thread, Americans are commenting publically on British gun law. I fully endorse their right to do so (especially in a place like the SDMB). I may disagree with what they say, some of it may make me very angry, I may feel they are uninformed, disingenuous, illogical or whatever. But if so, I will criticise what they say on those grounds. **I will not say that because they are not British they should not comment on British issues**. In my opinion that would be an utterly absurd position to hold, and I would criticise any British person who held it. From the evidence of this thread, I would guess that the other British posters here agree with me. I therefore regard it as equally absurd for any American person to aver that British people should not comment on American laws and policies. In my opinion this holds no matter what the topic is. By all means point out why you believe a situation is different, or why you believe someone has been uninformed when they disagree with you, but unfortunately I find myself unable to see what > [@](#): > > _I just wish they’d reciprocate the courtesy and put a muzzle on their busy-body blabbermouths who feel the need to tell us what to do with our guns._ contributes to any debate. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/57 "2009-01-20T18:17:17Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I had a really bad migraine when I posted this; if would have bitten the head off a kitten if I had one handy at the time. My apologies; I didn’t mean to defecate on the thread. > > I still have the migraine, it just isn’t as bad today. Ouch. Migraine is a real bear, by all I ever heard - fortunately I’ve never had it. I do believe **Airman Doors, USAF** linked to this exact same clip some while back and we had this discussion back then. Basically, within the last few years the only gun-owners to be significantly affected have been the target-shooting handgunners, and I think the laws on storing shotguns have been tightened up a little; but the latter have overwhelmingly been used only for vermin control and small-game shooting, and no-one’s right or custom to use guns for self-defence has been abridged, 'cos such use was already vanishingly rare in the first place. Nor do I know anyone, even by reputation, who is pining to be allowed to keep a firearm to repel intruders from his home. So, sadly, the thread title is completely misleading, and if an accurate precis of the commentator’s tone in the clip, all the more indication of said commentator’s mendacity. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/58 "2009-01-20T18:36:26Z")
What I have a problem with is the idea that it’s either a complete acquittal or life in prison. Did he deserve a fine? Probably. Did he deserve a few years in prison? Maybe. Did he deserve to be sentenced to be in prison for the rest of his life? No. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/59 "2009-01-20T19:04:36Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > What I have a problem with is the idea that it’s either a complete acquittal or life in prison. > > Did he deserve a fine? Probably. > Did he deserve a few years in prison? Maybe. > Did he deserve to be sentenced to be in prison for the rest of his life? No. > > Valete, > Vox Imperatoris If you get convicted of murder in the British legal systems the judge has no option but to sentence ‘life’. However the meaning of ‘life’ varies considerably - many people get out in about 10 years and it rarely means ‘until you die’. Anyway, if you check Wikipedia, Tony Martin’s conviction was reduced on appeal to manslaughter and he was released in 2003. Also according to Wikipedia, Tony Martin has endorsed the BNP. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818/60 "2009-01-20T19:34:02Z")
The residents of the UK are perfectly entitled to have any degree of restriction on the ownership of weapons they wish. Their country, their laws. All I require is that other countries extend the same courtesy to the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-called-they-want-their-guns-back/481818.md?page=4)