# The British Royal Navy has never lost a battle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894 "2015-09-04T11:12:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/1 "2015-09-04T11:12:50Z")
This assertion came up in a conversation at work recently, I’ve done some google research myself but haven’t found anything conclusive. It sounds unlikely to me, but I’m sure the Straightdope will have…well the straight-dope on this question. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/2 "2015-09-04T11:17:52Z")
[Battle of Cartagena de Indias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cartagena_de_Indias) > [@](#): > > The Battle of Cartagena de Indias was an amphibious military engagement between the forces of Britain under Vice-Admiral Edward Vernon and those of Spain under Admiral Blas de Lezo. It took place at the city of Cartagena de Indias in March 1741, in present-day Colombia. The battle was a significant episode of the War of Jenkins’ Ear and a large-scale naval campaign. The war later was subsumed into the greater conflict of the War of the Austrian Succession. The battle resulted in a major defeat for the British Navy and Army. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/3 "2015-09-04T11:20:19Z")
It won’t take long to find refutations, but the fact is that people who take positions like “X _never_ did Y” are going to counter-argue that “engagement” and “battle” are very different. (Next October 7th, quietly fly a little tricolor on a cupcake with “220” lettered in icing) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/4 "2015-09-04T11:35:27Z")
Do encounters with only two or three ships total count? Because the _U.S.S. Constitution_ pretty famously took out the _H.M.S. Guerriere_, then later beat the _H.M.S. Java_ in another, and then _H.M.S. Cyane_ and the _H.M.S. Levant_ in a single engagement. > **[USS Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution)** > > USS Constitution, also known as Old Ironsides, is a three-masted wooden-hulled heavy frigate of the United States Navy. She is the world's oldest ship still afloat.\[Note 1\] She was launched in 1797, one of six original frigates authorized for construction by the Naval Act of 1794 and the third constructed. The name "Constitution" was among ten names submitted to President George Washington by Secretary of War Timothy Pickering in March of 1795 for the frigates that were to be constructed. Cons... There’s arguably the Battle of Denmark Straits, where the _H.M.S. Hood_ was sunk, and where the German ships Bismarck and Prinz Eugen escaped blockade, but the Bismarck was damaged enough to have to run to drydock, so you could argue it was a net victory or loss. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/5 "2015-09-04T11:39:47Z")
Second World War, off the coast of Malaysia, to the Japanese. Driven off more than sunk, but still a defeat I think! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/6 "2015-09-04T11:43:20Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > This assertion came up in a conversation at work recently, I’ve done some google research myself but haven’t found anything conclusive. > > It sounds unlikely to me, but I’m sure the Straightdope will have…well the straight-dope on this question. 🙂 I can’t imagine how we could possibly maintain a 100% record considering how many sea battles we must have been in over the years. Somebody has been taking the words of the puff piece [Rule, Britannia!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule,_Britannia!#Original_lyrics) just a little too literally. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/7 "2015-09-04T12:17:38Z")
The famous battle of Jutland (WWI) was arguably a British defeat (in terms of losses). Strategically, it was a victory (the German High Seas Fleet never challenged the RN again). There was also the engagement off Coromandel , in which Von Spee destroyed Admiral Craddock’s force. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/8 "2015-09-04T12:26:34Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > It won’t take long to find refutations, but the fact is that people who take positions like “X _never_ did Y” are going to counter-argue that “engagement” and “battle” are very different. > > (Next October 7th, quietly fly a little tricolor on a cupcake with “220” lettered in icing) Well to be fair, the guy who said it thought it was unlikely as well. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your last sentence? > [@SanVito](#): > > I can’t imagine how we could possibly maintain a 100% record considering how many sea battles we must have been in over the years. > > Somebody has been taking the words of the puff piece [Rule, Britannia!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule,_Britannia!#Original_lyrics) just a little too literally. Yeah, that’s why it made me raise my eyebrows at the thought. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Do encounters with only two or three ships total count? Counts for me. 🙂 Thanks for the answers everyone! btw on a sidenote the assertion came up during a conversation about a recent book by an American author I recently read. She kept referring to the ‘Royal Navy’, the ‘Royal Air Force’, and the ‘Royal Army’, I knew the latter wasn’t correct but I didn’t know why so did a little research, and they say the Irish have long memories! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/9 "2015-09-04T12:31:12Z")
The Dutch navy under De Ruyter and Tromp defeated the British navy in the 17th century. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/10 "2015-09-04T12:33:20Z")
Didn’t the Japanese sink two of Britain’s capital ships at the beginning of WW2 with no significant losses of their own? > **[Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse)** > >  United Kingdom >  Japan > 1941 I guess it’s not a naval battle, since no Japanese ships were involved, but the British Navy got dominated by the Japanese air force. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/11 "2015-09-04T12:37:52Z")
This is an American board right? The RN was famously defeated at the[Battle of Chesapeake Bay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake) 224 years ago tommorrow. The French victory led directly to the British capitulation at Yorktown. Have you guys seriously not heard of that? Otherwise who knows? The US might have been beginning this weak to celebrate Elizabeth II becoming the longest regaining monarch. Other defeats include [Force Z](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Z), [Cornonel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Coronel) a[nd various](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Days%27_Battle)rogerings at the [hands of the Dutch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway) in the 17th centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/12 "2015-09-04T12:46:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Didn’t the Japanese sink two of Britain’s capital ships at the beginning of WW2 with no significant losses of their own? > > [Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse) > > I guess it’s not a naval battle, since no Japanese ships were involved, but the British Navy got dominated by the Japanese air force. The beginning? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/13 "2015-09-04T12:47:23Z")
Beginning of the Pacific war, that is. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/14 "2015-09-04T12:50:43Z")
The Royal Navy has a lot of defeats in its history, and I’m a little puzzled as to why someone who has any interest at all in naval warfare wouldn’t know about Chesapeake Bay, or their various defeats in the War of 1812 (during which the RN performed dreadfully) or the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse, Medway (as opposed to Midway), and others. The British have a hell of a naval history, but no one is undefeated. Still, they usually end up winning in the end. As the old joke goes, they don’t win all the battles but they always win the last one. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/15 "2015-09-04T12:58:28Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The famous battle of Jutland (WWI) was arguably a British defeat (in terms of losses). Strategically, it was a victory (the German High Seas Fleet never challenged the RN again). Something seems to be wrong with our bloody ships today. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/16 "2015-09-04T13:03:03Z")
The “something wrong with our ships today” was a quote from Admiral Beatty-who was responsible for sending in the battle cruisers to closely engage the Germans-he was responsible for the losses. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/17 "2015-09-04T13:09:39Z")
_cough cough_ HMS Hood: > **[Battle of the Denmark Strait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait)** > > 1939 > 1940 > 1941 The Americans share the glory in this one: > **[Battle of the Java Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Java_Sea)** > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}5°0′S 111°0′E / 5.000°S 111.000°E / -5.000; 111.000 > 1941 > 1942 > 1942 Smaller action, in 1943: > **[Battle of Sept-Îles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sept-%C3%8Eles)** > > 1939 > 1940 > 1941 Japanese Carriers Gone Wild: > **[Indian Ocean raid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_raid)** > >  United Kingdom > 1941 > 1942 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/18 "2015-09-04T13:23:18Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The “something wrong with our ships today” was a quote from Admiral Beatty-who was responsible for sending in the battle cruisers to closely engage the Germans-he was responsible for the losses. That, and the German armor. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/19 "2015-09-04T13:29:18Z")
The Battle of Lake Erie, the Battle of Lake Champlain, and the Battle of Baltimore, all in the War of 1812 alone. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/20 "2015-09-04T13:42:41Z")
HMS Shannon captured one of the large frigates, USS Chesapeake. Some of her wood is in the [Chesapeake Mill](https://firmank.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/image_113.jpg) in Wickham. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894.md?page=2)