# The British Royal Navy has never lost a battle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894 "2015-09-04T11:12:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/21 "2015-09-04T13:42:41Z")
[Battle of the Java Sea, 1942](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Java_Sea). the ABDACOM force, consisting of ships from the Royal Navy, US Navy, Royal Netherlands Navy and the Royal Australian Navy got defeated pretty roundly. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/22 "2015-09-04T13:47:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Didn’t the Japanese sink two of Britain’s capital ships at the beginning of WW2 with no significant losses of their own? > > [Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse) > > I guess it’s not a naval battle, since no Japanese ships were involved, but the British Navy got dominated by the Japanese air force. Carrier-based torpedo planes were involved in that action, so it counts. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/23 "2015-09-04T13:57:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Beginning of the Pacific war, that is. [The beginning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War)? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/24 "2015-09-04T14:06:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > This is an American board right? > > The RN was famously defeated at the[Battle of Chesapeake Bay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake) 224 years ago tommorrow. The French victory led directly to the British capitulation at Yorktown. Have you guys seriously not heard of that? It is pretty sad, a lot of Americans haven’t (there are likely to be many exceptions to that, particularly on this board.) American history tends to downplay the vital role the French played, possibly because of modern-day American attitudes about the French. Depending on successful French naval action wouldn’t fit well with the preferred narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/25 "2015-09-04T14:06:41Z")
I’m surprised no Americans have mentioned the “Battle of the Capes” which allowed them to trap Cornwallis in Yorktown, essentially ending the American Revolutionary War. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/26 "2015-09-04T14:11:22Z")
That was only incidentally a naval battle. De Grasse’s fleet mainly just prevented the RN from being able to evacuate the Army, forcing the surrender. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/27 "2015-09-04T14:40:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That was only incidentally a naval battle. De Grasse’s fleet mainly just prevented the RN from being able to evacuate the Army, forcing the surrender. And continuing the war. Or ending it on less favourable terms, the French had send out peace feelers already, and the Continental Congress’s kitty was all but bankrupt, if the war went on…, which it would have had Cornwallis escaped. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/28 "2015-09-04T15:07:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And continuing the war. Or ending it on less favourable terms, the French had send out peace feelers already, and the Continental Congress’s kitty was all but bankrupt, if the war went on…, which it would have had Cornwallis escaped. Both sides wanted it over. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/29 "2015-09-04T15:15:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Battle of Lake Erie… As a proud Ohioan, I came in to mention this. There is a heroic statue of Commodore Perry just across the street from where I work. > **[Battle of Lake Erie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_lake_erie)** > > 540 men > 1,536 lb broadside > 450 men > 804 lb total broadside > East Coast ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/30 "2015-09-04T16:06:50Z")
Old Ironsides (Post #4) is an old favorite of mine. 🙂 (Richard Armour said the ship defeated the _"Derrière,_ which shot only grapes.") 😃 And don’t forget the \*Bonhomme Richard, \* which the _Serapis_ pretty much turned to Swiss cheese–but the Brits lost that battle anyway. Jones: I have not yet begun to fight! Sailor: Well, don’t you think it’s about time you did? The bloomin’ ship’s about had it! ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/31 "2015-09-04T16:33:59Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > It is pretty sad, a lot of Americans haven’t (there are likely to be many exceptions to that, particularly on this board.) American history tends to downplay the vital role the French played, possibly because of modern-day American attitudes about the French. Depending on successful French naval action wouldn’t fit well with the preferred narrative. True about The French. Also, we shouldn’t forget their daring raid when, against all odds, they succeeded in sinking the unarmed _Rainbow Warrior_ in an heroic operation half way round the world in Auckland in 1985. “Britain: An attitude towards The French since 1066” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/32 "2015-09-04T16:42:17Z")
A few more: [Bantry Bay, 1689](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bantry_Bay) [Beachy Head, 1690](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beachy_Head_%281690%29) [Lagos, 1693](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lagos_%281693%29) [St. John, 1696](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_battle_off_St._John_%281696%29) [The Lizard, 1707](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_at_The_Lizard) [Minorca, 1756](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Minorca_%281756%29) [Sadras, 1782](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sadras) [Providien, 1782](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Providien) [First Algeciras, 1801](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Algeciras) Britain was the most consistently formidable European naval power from at least the 17th-20th centuries. They kind of had to be to compete considering geography and demography. But that hardly means they were invincible or always won. They lost a few semi-significant battles, a few campaigns and many smaller actions in the course of a largely very successful era of naval dominance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/33 "2015-09-04T16:42:36Z")
John Paul Jones and [del]Raymond Burr[/del] Old Ironsides came to mind immediately. Sounds like ‘battle’ has had its definition limited to the encounters the Royal Navy won. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/34 "2015-09-04T16:58:46Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > American history tends to downplay the vital role the French played, possibly because of modern-day American attitudes about the French. This is nonsense from one end to the other. The fact is, though, history classes prior to the college level are characterized by having a lot of material packed into a short span of time; calling them “surveys” would be too kind, but at the same time it’s hard to imagine how they could go into much more depth on anything without leaving some important things out entirely. Especially now that history has (rightly) moved away from the names-dates-battles Great Man Theory historiography and at least pays lip service to the role of broader social forces. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/35 "2015-09-04T17:05:34Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > A few more: > > [Bantry Bay, 1689](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bantry_Bay) > > [Beachy Head, 1690](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beachy_Head_%281690%29) > > [Lagos, 1693](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lagos_%281693%29) > > [St. John, 1696](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_battle_off_St._John_%281696%29) > > [The Lizard, 1707](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_at_The_Lizard) > > [Minorca, 1756](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Minorca_%281756%29) > > [Sadras, 1782](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sadras) > > [Providien, 1782](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Providien) > > [First Algeciras, 1801](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Algeciras) > > Britain was the most consistently formidable European naval power from at least the 17th-20th centuries. They kind of had to be to compete considering geography and demography. But that hardly means they were invincible or always won. They lost a few semi-significant battles, a few campaigns and many smaller actions in the course of a largely very successful era of naval dominance. I think that what is really significant is that, after the Nazis overran and crushed France in 1940, and the British stood alone against the Axis in Europe, that the Axis failed to beat down the British. Hitler’s ill-fated attack on the Soviet Union, and Pearl Harbor, were still a long time off. Surre, the British lost some battles, but certainly now facing the Axis they were grimly determined to return with their shields or on them. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/36 "2015-09-04T17:48:39Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > A few more: > > [Bantry Bay, 1689](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bantry_Bay) > > [Beachy Head, 1690](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beachy_Head_%281690%29) > > [Lagos, 1693](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lagos_%281693%29) > > [St. John, 1696](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_battle_off_St._John_%281696%29) > > [The Lizard, 1707](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_at_The_Lizard) > > [Minorca, 1756](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Minorca_%281756%29) > > [Sadras, 1782](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sadras) > > [Providien, 1782](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Providien) > > [First Algeciras, 1801](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Algeciras) You forgot the [Dardanelles Operation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanelles_Operation_(1807)) of 1807. The Dardanelles; the Royal Navy’s Afghanistan.😛 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/37 "2015-09-04T18:16:05Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Jones: I have not yet begun to fight! > Sailor: Well, don’t you think it’s about time you did? The bloomin’ ship’s about had it! It is rumored that Jones said, “Now I’ve got the son of a bitch!”, but that obviously does not go down well in Middle School History. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/38 "2015-09-04T18:20:00Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Carrier-based torpedo planes were involved in that action, so it counts. I don’t think so. IIRC all the planes were land mased twin-engine bombers. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/39 "2015-09-04T18:28:57Z")
The Genzan Air Group was Navy. They may have flown from land bases, but they were a naval unit. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/40 "2015-09-04T18:31:03Z")
They were not carrier-based. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894.md?page=3)