# The British Royal Navy has never lost a battle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894 "2015-09-04T11:12:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/61 "2015-09-05T10:40:51Z")
Dopers may be interested in the film [Michiel de Ruyter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiel_de_Ruyter_(film)). ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/62 "2015-09-05T11:10:16Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The famous battle of Jutland (WWI) was arguably a British defeat (in terms of losses). Strategically, it was a victory (the German High Seas Fleet never challenged the RN again). There was also the engagement off Coromandel , in which Von Spee destroyed Admiral Craddock’s force. Very weak argument !. Battle plan: Deutchland’s ininiative… They were hoping to lure a substantial part of the British Fleet with bait, and destroy it with an ambush by the Deutch fleet… Perhaps demoralising the British navy and having it regarded as “best to keep it in port as a fleet in being”… ??? This then sets the British objective as “clear the North Sea and keep our reputation”… Detuchland totally failed to do any real damage, Britian totally succeeded in sending the Deutch back to port, for good (until the end of the war), demoralised, and not to be trusted. The North Sea would be required to be kept clear, for example the USA forces will arrive be sea later on… ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/63 "2015-09-05T11:28:34Z")
There was 12 against 12 at Minorca, 1756, Brits had termed up with a hasty assembled fleet, and found France had already prepared for a naval invasion… France has its own 12 ships in top form and ready for the job. France won the battle, Minorca was in French hands to the end of the war. See > **[Battle of Minorca (1756)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Minorca_%281756%29)** > > Westphalia, Hesse and Lower Saxony > Electoral Saxony > Brandenburg The brits devised a plan to ensure no further naval battles were lost… They court marshaled, and executed, the CO, Admiral John Byng… His only other option would have been to refuse to sail with ill prepared ships, so its rather a scapegoat action to kill him… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/64 "2015-09-05T12:02:10Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > The brits devised a plan to ensure no further naval battles were lost… They court marshaled, and executed, the CO, Admiral John Byng… His only other option would have been to refuse to sail with ill prepared ships, so its rather a scapegoat action to kill him… The British occasionally shoot a few Admirals to encourage the others. -Voltaire. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/65 "2015-09-05T12:15:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Yes, it is an American board, and being so, this question was posted either in the early morning or the middle of the night American time. And no one had mentioned the Battle of the Chesapeake for a whole hour, can you believe that? :rolleyes: No need to get so damn abrasive. If someone asked what was the biggest battle of the US Civil War, then the answer would be Gettysburg, in a single post. It is surprising that no one mentioned such an important battle in American history for 12 posts. This is GQ after all, maybe you might spend your time better by telling how well known that Battle is in general. Rather than taking potshots. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/66 "2015-09-05T15:04:14Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > Ah, _Zappers That History Forgot_. A comedy classic. > > Nathan Hale: “I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country.” > Redcoat (kicking barrel from under Hale): “We’re not complaining! Every little helps!” Thanks. 🙂 Back to the British, another involved Churchill and some high-ranking military officers: Churchill: "We shall fight them in the hills… "We shall fight them in the cities… “We shall fight them in the villages!” Admiral standing nearby: “I say! Have you thought of fighting them in GERMANY?!” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/67 "2015-09-06T00:25:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: > > No need to get so damn abrasive. Abrasive? You were the one who snarkily questioned Americans’ grasp of their own history based on not instantly answering a question to your satisfaction in the early morning. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/68 "2015-09-06T01:18:44Z")
Regarding the Battle of the Chesapeake, it is quite possible that other posters chose, as i did, to refrain from bringing it up as too contentious for the actual GQ OP. While the battle was a huge strategic loss to Britain, preventing the relief of Cornwallis and advancing support for Washington, the battle _ **as a battle** _, does not quite rise to the level of “defeat” as one regards Coronel, and I was reluctant to cause the thread to be hijacked into a discussion of that issue. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/69 "2015-09-06T03:30:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Regarding the Battle of the Chesapeake, it is quite possible that other posters chose, as i did, to refrain from bringing it up as too contentious for the actual GQ OP. While the battle was a huge strategic loss to Britain, preventing the relief of Cornwallis and advancing support for Washington, the battle _ **as a battle** _, does not quite rise to the level of “defeat” as one regards Coronel, and I was reluctant to cause the thread to be hijacked into a discussion of that issue. Then hardly any battle in history is a defeat, if your force is not destroyed or captured _en mass_. You really want to argue that failing to achieve your immediate objective and suffering an extremely adverse strategic consequence is not a defeat? ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/70 "2015-09-06T14:21:18Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > This is nonsense from one end to the other. I disagree - if you search a bit, you may find this is a pretty common myth - Here’s the results of a quick Google search: > [@](#): > > The claim that “independent husbandmen” overcame battalions of British veterans on an equal field and won - or could have won - their independence unaided any military or naval power is not only false but silly. > … > Washington, by oft-repeated declarations, clearly expressed his belief that the colonies without the aid of France and Spain could never have achieved their independence; and that even with that aid the result was not beyond a doubt. - _Myths and Facts of the American Revolution: A Commentary on United States History as it is Written_, Arthur Johnston > [@](#): > > In the centuries since the Revolutionary War, French contributions have been criminally downplayed. Somewhere between the real Yorktown and Mel Gibson’s rather less accurate version, The Patriot, the monumental French war effort during the birth of America got forgotten, buried in the sand, and pissed on. - [5 Myths About the Revolutionary War Everyone Believes | Cracked.com](http://www.cracked.com/article_20306_5-myths-about-revolutionary-war-everyone-believes.html) > [@](#): > > Myth #4: Americans won the war single handedly > > In reality, Americans armed themselves and outfitted their troops with money borrowed from France, Holland and Spain. - [http://users.humboldt.edu/ogayle/hist110/unit2/revolution.html](http://users.humboldt.edu/ogayle/hist110/unit2/revolution.html) It fits in quite well with the myth that the vital role the French played in helping the U.S. win independence isn’t the first thing on the lips of most Americans when thinking of British naval defeats. I don’t think this thread is an example of that, but try asking the question of a random American not on the SDMB and see how long it takes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/71 "2015-09-06T15:44:00Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Detuchland totally failed to do any real damage (in the battle of Jutland), Britian totally succeeded in sending the Deutch back to port, for good (until the end of the war), demoralised, and not to be trusted. Actually, there were multiple sorties by the German High Seas Fleet [after Jutland in 1916 and in 1917](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Seas_Fleet) (none of which had any major impact on the war). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/72 "2015-09-07T00:33:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Then hardly any battle in history is a defeat, if your force is not destroyed or captured _en mass_. You really want to argue that failing to achieve your immediate objective and suffering an extremely adverse strategic consequence is not a defeat? This pretty much ignores my actual post. The two fleets danced around each other for several days following the battle. The Brits scuttled one solitary ship. Neither side was forced to retire. In terms of a “battle as a battle,” it was hardly a crushing defeat. As I noted, it was a tremendous strategic loss. In the context of the OP’s question, however, one might always find persons willing to dispute the claim of a defeat–a hijack I hoped to avoid, yet you appear intent on expanding. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/73 "2015-09-07T00:43:35Z")
The line between tactical and strategic victories historiographically speaking is never so fine as when comparing French naval victories and defeats, because the neutral voice always wants to remain balanced when the French tactical doctrine aims to preserve the French total firepower at all costs. Who knows what later historians would say if the English would have regrouped and come in force to reinforce Yorktown? They would have called the Chesapeake inconclusive or a marginal victory (but was definitely not in any sense a British victory.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/74 "2015-09-07T02:56:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Actually, there were multiple sorties by the German High Seas Fleet [after Jutland in 1916 and in 1917](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Seas_Fleet) (none of which had any major impact on the war). Indeed? I shall check out your link. Thanks for fighting ignorance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/75 "2015-09-07T08:29:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The British have a hell of a naval history, but no one is undefeated. Still, they usually end up winning in the end. As the old joke goes, they don’t win all the battles but they always win the last one. Yes, like at the aforementioned Chesapeake Bay… ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/76 "2015-09-07T08:39:00Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > There was 12 against 12 at Minorca, 1756, > Brits had termed up with a hasty assembled fleet, and found France had already prepared for a naval invasion… France has its own 12 ships in top form and ready for the job. > > France won the battle, Minorca was in French hands to the end of the war. > See > [Battle of Minorca (1756) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Minorca_%281756%29) > > The brits devised a plan to ensure no further naval battles were lost… They court marshaled, and executed, the CO, Admiral John Byng… His only other option would have been to refuse to sail with ill prepared ships, so its rather a scapegoat action to kill him… They had obviously read Candide - _“dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres”_ ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/77 "2015-09-07T11:16:59Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > They had obviously read Candide - _“dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres”_ Actually Voltaire wrote that as a comment on the execution of Admiral Byng after it had taken place 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/78 "2015-09-07T13:07:52Z")
Voltaire wrote the novel Candide. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/79 "2015-09-07T14:53:50Z")
Voltaire ’ s comment, rendered in French here, sounds like you have to cut off one finger in order to appreciate the other nine. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894/80 "2015-09-07T16:26:40Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Actually Voltaire wrote that as a comment on the execution of Admiral Byng after it had taken place 🙂 > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Voltaire wrote the novel Candide. Did I wander into the Trivia Dominoes thread…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-british-royal-navy-has-never-lost-a-battle/729894.md?page=5)