# The Browns Lose Again - Joe Thomas Retires **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 15, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602 "2018-03-15T13:14:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/1 "2018-03-15T13:14:10Z")
[Joe Thomas](http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000921291), ten times Pro Bowl-er, six times First Team All-Pro, has finally retired after eleven seasons, and 10,363 consecutive snaps. In his case, NFL did _not_ mean Not For Long. He says it wasn’t the torn triceps tendon, but his knee, and he is contemplating eventual knee replacement. As he said to his grandmother, “Football hurts”. On the plus side, he had some auditions with various media outlets, and has been offered a front-office position, and his spectacularly beautiful wife Annie is pregnant with their fourth child. And if anyone is not going to go broke after retirement, it’s Joe - he is a sharp guy with money. He takes after his father. I saw him over the weekend - his brother who lives in China was having his marriage blessed in church, and Joe was as cheerful and upbeat as he usually is. It’s been a heck of a ride with this guy, and being the best player, on the worst team in football, means no head case problems. God bless you, Joe. (And Annie and Camryn and Logan and Jack and the player to be named later). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/2 "2018-03-15T14:38:51Z")
It honestly is one of the saddest tales in all of sports. He is literally one of the greatest players to ever play the game of football and he has literally nothing to show for it other than Pro Bowls. Not a single division title, not a single playoff appearance, not a single title of any sort (Although I’m assuming he “won” the Pro Bowl at least once out of 10 chances if you want to count that). He deserved to have been traded to a team worth its salt years ago, but never did because he’s too good of a person. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/3 "2018-03-15T15:58:05Z")
The thing is, he isn’t even a little bit sad about anything - not his knee, not his other injuries, not their record, not nothing. Just show up and do your best, until he can’t do his best anymore, and then retire with dignity. Like I said, he takes after his father. His father is one of those annoying people who is good at everything - very smart, makes more money than a Third World country, can fix anything, good to his family, a pillar of his church - and most annoying of all, a genuinely nice and friendly person, so you can’t even resent him for it. Joe is just like him. It’s not sad. Do what you want to do, do it well, for as long as you can, then find something else and do that well too. This ain’t the end for Joe Thomas. And when he shows up in Canton in a few years, that won’t be the end either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/4 "2018-03-15T16:04:31Z")
This is probably an unpopular opinion but while Thomas was a very good LT, I always felt he was overrated in the eyes of Pro Bowl voters. You know who was every bit as good, if not better that never got any respect? Andrew Whitworth. Yes, I am a Bengals fan but Whitworth is right up there or better than Thomas in almost every conceivable metric used to judge OT’s and he never sniffed the Pro Bowl as a starter, and rarely as an alternate. I guess it also can be hard to tell, the Browns have had shit lines by and large surrounding him, which made his life a lot less easy. Good for him though. Amazing that he never asked to be traded. I know I would have, probably about 6 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/5 "2018-03-15T16:40:26Z")
Life is tough for offensive linemen, especially when it comes to recognition and accolades. It’s a low-profile position and generally your name only gets mentioned on TV if you fuck up or are injured. Most fans don’t even watch or understand OL play, and when voting for the Pro Bowl either just pick the guy on “their” team or the “big” name they recognize; I have a feeling that, say, Jonathan Ogden wasn’t the absolute best OT in the AFC all 11 years he made the Pro Bowl, but he was voted in anyways. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/6 "2018-03-15T17:17:05Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Most fans don’t even watch or understand OL play, and when voting for the Pro Bowl either just pick the guy on “their” team or the “big” name they recognize; I have a feeling that, say, Jonathan Ogden wasn’t the absolute best OT in the AFC all 11 years he made the Pro Bowl, but he was voted in anyways. Bear in mind that Pro Bowl voting isn’t just a fan vote; IIRC, the fan vote is weighted for 1/3 of the total vote, players’ votes are weighted 1/3, and coaches’ votes are weighted 1/3. I have no doubt that popular / respected players probably earn the benefit of the doubt, to a certain extent, from other players and coaches, but I’d imagine that their opinions are at least more well-informed than the fans. Also, FWIW, in NFL Network’s “Top 100 Players” list (which is voted on by players), he was in the top 25 for 2014-2017 (and, for the first three of those four years, he was the only offensive lineman in the top 25). In 2015, he also won the Bruce Matthews Award (for best offensive lineman in the league) from [Pro Football Focus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Football_Focus), which is an analytical group. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/7 "2018-03-15T17:26:21Z")
**Shodan** , if you want us to think he’s a family member, why not just say so? Assuming he is, your pride and affection are well-placed. As for it being a shame he wasted his career in Cleveland, he did have multiple opportunities to go elsewhere but chose not to do it. The people who deserve pity are the fans, not the players. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/8 "2018-03-15T17:44:58Z")
That’s the first time I have ever been accused of being too subtle in [my](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417260) [shameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=384821), [over-the-top bragging](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340301) about any member of my family. He’s my nephew.For the record, [I](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630508) [also](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636832) [have](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=792661) a [dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=774221) but he hasn’t achieved nearly as much in his career. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/9 "2018-03-15T17:47:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s the first time I have ever been accused of being too subtle in [my](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417260) [shameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=384821), [over-the-top bragging](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340301) about any member of my family. He’s my nephew.For the record, [I](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630508) [also](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636832) [have](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=792661) a [dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=774221) but he hasn’t achieved nearly as much in his career. > > Regards, > Shodan I haven’t been on the board long enough to see those other threads. Wow Shodan! You’ve got a good nephew (good in every sense of the word) ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/10 "2018-03-15T18:11:41Z")
The Browns record during his career was 48-128. A winning percentage of .273. That is truly remarkable. 10-6 in his rookie year, and then all sub .500 afterwards. Its hard to imagine anyone in any profession giving their best for 10 years without any hint of success. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/11 "2018-03-16T01:18:11Z")
So, Shodan, as a close relative of an NFL vet, what do you think about the CTE issue? What would you suggest Joe tell his kids? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/12 "2018-03-16T06:29:17Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > He is literally one of the greatest players to ever play the game of football and he has literally nothing to show for it other than Pro Bowls. Well, Pro Bowls _and_ [$122.8 million](http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-thomas-2348/cash-earnings/). I don’t know how he will manage to deal with all of his failure! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/13 "2018-03-16T07:28:44Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, Pro Bowls _and_ [$122.8 million](http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-thomas-2348/cash-earnings/). And, a brace of other awards, and a very high likelihood of enshrinement in Canton. From everything I’ve read, many star players who never get a championship (or even have a shot at one) tend to feel that their careers were somewhat incomplete as a result, and it’s possible that Thomas will feel some of that. OTOH, he seems to have done everything within his own power to help his team succeed, and he’s been recognized as one of the finest in the game. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/14 "2018-03-16T10:30:10Z")
Maybe at some point, the Cleveland Browns organization should also just, you know, retire. And start over again. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/15 "2018-03-16T11:45:53Z")
They already did that once. This is what happened. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/16 "2018-03-16T15:37:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They already did that once. This is what happened. It’s been breathtaking how many times Browns 2.0 have changed GMs and coaches, with no appreciable increase in team quality. At this point, they should just go get [Kevin Costner and Jennifer Garner](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2223990/?ref_=nv_sr_1), because they’d probably be better than anyone else they’ve had. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/17 "2018-03-16T16:55:56Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So, Shodan, as a close relative of an NFL vet, what do you think about the CTE issue? What would you suggest Joe tell his kids? They have a 122 million reasons to be grateful. Also, he can tell them about hard work, loyalty and toughness and what these values may accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/18 "2018-03-16T17:52:46Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > They have a 122 million reasons to be grateful. Also, he can tell them about hard work, loyalty and toughness and what these values may accomplish. I wonder if Chris Benoit gave his kids that same speech. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/19 "2018-03-16T20:28:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They already did that once. This is what happened. Yeah, they really got screwed when Modell left them in the 1990s for Baltimore. Baltimore owes Cleveland two titles, and the Indians can’t really steal them from the Orioles so something’s gotta give. I guess they can’t steal Super Bowl titles from the Ravens either. But anyway, I digress…this version of the “Browns” ought to be issued a cease and desist letter from the NFL and then the NFL ought to create a new team in its place, with each team donating at least one good player. I can’t think of a sports franchise this bad since the San Diego-Los Angeles Clippers of the 1980s and 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602/20 "2018-03-16T20:42:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I wonder if Chris Benoit gave his kids that same speech. Is Thomas a steroid and drug addict? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-browns-lose-again-joe-thomas-retires/810602.md?page=2)