# The BSA Thugs: What Powers Do They Have? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326 "2004-08-04T18:59:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/21 "2004-08-05T10:29:26Z")
> [@asheets](#): > > Let me add that my “tips” are usually very detailed. For the call centers, I was able to identify (because of my former position with the company) the exact number of computers involved, their exact loadouts and configs, their exact locations in the building, and how many licenses I could actually account for. Just saying that they are pirating MS Word won’t do it – you have to tell the BSA where, when, and how. The SDMB:Justly famous for the broad and eclectic personal experience ready to be marshalled on a moment’s notice and applied to grind out ambiguity and conjecture, replacing them with blazingly transparant and well-informed exegisis. translation, oh shit–I hope you confine yourself to software, otherwise don’t move in next door to me thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/22 "2004-08-05T12:27:03Z")
Thanks everyone for the very informative posts! There were a couple of people let go recently that may be taking a little revenge. Its all BS since we’re paid up so the lawyers may just let them sue if they want. They’re going to look pretty silly when we turn up compliant. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/23 "2004-08-05T12:30:46Z")
Let us know what happens. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/24 "2004-08-05T13:13:02Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Another reason not to piss off the company psycho Actually I’d think I was more of a good reason to make sure your software is correctly licenced. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/25 "2004-08-05T13:17:17Z")
I like it. I only wish that I turned in GE when they laid me off. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/26 "2004-08-05T13:33:09Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Actually I’d think I was more of a good reason to make sure your software is correctly licenced. I want to reinforce this statement. While I expected us to have a few violations (primarily due to sloppy administrative record keeping), we had a lot more than a few. It was hard to _prove_ that we had legitimate licenses. It took a lot of effort to manually audit every desktop and server (about 200 boxes), and match the installed software against our incomplete records of purchased licenses. All in all, we had more than enough licenses purchased, but our problem was that there were a lot of software that had been upgraded to a newer version (via our MSDN licenses) without actually having a new license purchased. And in some cases there was software loaded that was never used (caused by a faulty process at one of our remote locations), and so those were also violations. It’s worth the effort to go through this tedious manual process. Larger companies have automated inventory monitoring systems, but we didn’t (and still don’t – though in retrospect, knowing what I know now, I could have justified the purchase of one, given that our penalty is $40,000 on top of the $20,000 I had to spend to get our software into compliance). > [@Bongmaster](#): > > If I ignore them will they go away? Nope. But you sound quite confident that you’re compliant, so you probably have nothing to worry about. On the other hand, take a look at your CAL licenses very closely. There is no Microsoft licensing situation that is more complicated and prone to being out of compliance than with CALs. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/27 "2004-08-05T14:53:54Z")
Right, I’m not worried that we purchased licenses, I’m worried that I will have a hard time proving it. I imagine almost any company when audited will turn over some machines that are not properly licensed, it just happens. So I’m not worried about our tech licenses but our accounting of them. I shouldn’t have to prove my innocence. I will keep the thread updated as I get more info but it may be a while before I hear more. ---
**Author:** ![asheets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@asheets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asheets)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/28 "2004-08-05T14:54:36Z")
Actually, the reason I was fired from the company in question is because I was the “desktop integrator” – the guy who designed the images for all the major projects. I complained for 3 years that I was being asked to violate copyright laws, and finally they fired me for complaining too much. Of course, the BSA thought that the real kicker in my complaint was that the company was also out of compliance on MS-SMS – the software inventory auditing system. Installed everywhere (but not apparently used) and 0 licenses. > [@alaricthegoth](#): > > The SDMB:Justly famous for the broad and eclectic personal experience ready to be marshalled on a moment’s notice and applied to grind out ambiguity and conjecture, replacing them with blazingly transparant and well-informed exegisis. > > translation, oh shit–I hope you confine yourself to software, otherwise don’t move in next door to me thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/29 "2004-08-19T19:47:07Z")
Just an update for interested parties. The deadline has come and gone and we haven’t yet heard from the BSA. I did a complete audit myself so I could sleep at night and found 2 machines I needed to get XP licenses for…and nothing else. Shocking. One thing that did happen here which is an interesting turn of events is we are now evaluating Open office. So far so good. If this is what the BSA had in mind then Microsoft may want to think twice before sicking their hounds on the innocent…it could lead to bad things for them. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/31 "2011-07-30T23:23:53Z")
Probable spammer reanimating zombie thread reported. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/32 "2011-07-31T01:53:31Z")
They seem to be spamming Facebook as well as here, from my Google search. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/33 "2011-07-31T08:34:40Z")
But hey, maybe **Bongmaster** can tell us what happened … was that the end of it, or was there a suit filed? Also, I don’t see why the companies they request audits from wouldn’t just do the audits themselves, like **Bongmaster** did, and delete any pirated software, or buy licenses. Why do people let the BSA do audits and fine them? ---
**Author:** ![Khristy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@Khristy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khristy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/34 "2011-07-31T14:08:40Z")
Companies should all just switch to Linux and tell the BSA the go fuck themselves. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/35 "2011-07-31T15:42:41Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Also, I don’t see why the companies they request audits from wouldn’t just do the audits themselves, like **Bongmaster** did, and delete any pirated software, or buy licenses. Why do people let the BSA do audits and fine them? IANAL, but I do have some experience with electronic discovery. It is my understanding that if, after having a reasonable expectation that a lawsuit may be filed, you destroy evidence, REALLY bad things happen. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/36 "2011-07-31T15:54:24Z")
> [@Khristy](#): > > Companies should all just switch to Linux and tell the BSA the go fuck themselves. 😛 Exactly what I was thinking. People still _pay_ for software when there are free alternatives that are as good or better? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/37 "2011-07-31T18:41:31Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Also, I don’t see why the companies they request audits from wouldn’t just do the audits themselves, like **Bongmaster** did, and delete any pirated software, or buy licenses. Why do people let the BSA do audits and fine them? > [@Zakalwe](#): > > It is my understanding that if, after having a reasonable expectation that a lawsuit may be filed, you destroy evidence, REALLY bad things happen. Once the pirated software has been used, the civil infringement has already occurred. The BSA is not only interested in having the offending software deleted, but in recovering licensing fees for the copyright holder. Destroying evidence is called _spoliation_, and creates an independent right of action. So if you delete the stuff, the BSA can not only sue you for having it in the first place, but for destroying it afterwards. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The court process **Cerowyn** described is known in Commonwealth countries (U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zeland, etc.) as an “Anton Pillar order.” There’s a good summary of how it works on this site: [What is an Anton Pillar Order?](http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/10293). Don’t know if it works in the same way in the U.S. (although the site appears to be an American site). I have a fuzzy idea that the U.S. federal courts have ruled they can’t issue Anton Pillar orders, but I don’t know how the various state courts approach the issue. The US analogue is an impounding order under [17 USC § 50](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#503)3, which stems from the “without notice” temporary restraining order authority under [Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 65(b)(1)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule65.htm). It works almost exactly the same way; the ex parte movant must establish that irreparable harm will result from notice to the non-moving party. I think it’s questionable that a major commercial enterprise would take the risk of destroying files if it received advance warning of a warrant application though. ETA: Wow, that was a really old post I just responded to. Glad **NP** is still around. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/38 "2011-08-01T22:01:43Z")
**Bongmaster** ain’t posted on the SDMB since 5/2011. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326/39 "2011-08-01T23:47:53Z")
Zombie spammer got this going last night. He’s gone and so’s his post. Thread closed. **samclem** Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bsa-thugs-what-powers-do-they-have/258326.md?page=1)