# The burden of being pro-active in interpersonal relations **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397 "2014-05-27T18:47:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/21 "2014-05-28T18:14:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If a woman told me she just sits around and waits for men to make contact, the first thing I would think is that she has social deficits she’s trying to cover up with old-fashioned notions. If guys aren’t coming to you, you likely aren’t sending off “come hither” vibes. Which means your ass needs to do something besides “sit around”. I had a roommate like that once. She talked endlessly about marrying a rich, handsome man but she never left the apartment except to go to work, so unless that rich, handsome man walked into our apartment by mistake someday I don’t know where she thought she was going to find him. And she didn’t seem to understand how relationships were supposed to work, either. She got very upset when I asked her to be awake at 3 p.m. to let the super in so he could fix whatever was flooding the bathroom, insisting that I didn’t need to go to my then boyfriend’s (now husband) grandmother’s 94th birthday party and should stay home instead so that she didn’t have to be conscious at any point during the day. If I saw her on the news today with a story about how she shot a bunch of people because men weren’t giving her the attention she "deserved’ I wouldn’t be too surprised. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/22 "2014-05-28T18:20:07Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > Was he in therapy and/or on medication? If not, his family was in major denial, too. My understanding was that he was in therapy. I had read that he actually sent an email outlining his plans to his therapist, but by the time she had seen it and contacted the police, he had already began his rampage. Whether you are an introvert or extrovert, some level of effort is required on your part to initiate interpersonal relationships. It’s not reasonable to expect that everyone will approach or initiate contact with you. Think of it this way. If you aren’t offering other people anything, why should they offer something to you? From what I read, this guy was a spoiled narcissistic jerkoff who thought that the world owed him just because his daddy was rich. I feel like I knew a couple of guys like this in college and my 20s. They just gave off this weird creepy vibe like they were angry all the time. Not a regular explosive angry vibe like they would get mad and swear or punch a wall or something. Like that creepy implosive anger buzz that sort of just lies underneath their phony smiles and only comes out if they had a bit too much to drink. Usually resulting in picking a fight with three guys twice their size or smashing someone’s wind shield for no reason. It’s actually text book narcissistic personality disorder. Basically these people believe they are fundamentally better than everyone else. It seems like this condition is worsened if they grow up with affluence which affords them the ability to actually appear better than everyone else on a superficial level. When they are presented with evidence to the contrary (i.e. girls won’t date them, people in general don’t talk to them), they react with rage and often violence. Anyhow, it doesn’t hurt to gain a little humility through rejection. Better than build up some fantasy world of your own awesomeness, only to have it rudely shattered by reality. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/23 "2014-05-28T18:24:51Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I’ve never seen a woman rant about being an unloved 22-year-old virgin. I haven’t either, but I don’t know if this means anything other than women aren’t pressured the same way that men are. A woman can find friends who won’t make a big deal of her not getting laid every weekend. Perhaps I’m thinking of bad stereotypes, but it doesn’t seem like men have it this easy. Not that loner women have it easy. In some ways, I think loner women have it harder because they aren’t as visible. I rarely see women at the movie theater alone, hiking alone, or doing yard work alone. When people ask me what I did over the weekend, I inwardly cringe because I know they’re waiting for me to say “we did” instead of “I did”. I think women are more likely to have a “we did” story. But at least I don’t have to worry about the stink of “loser”. Fuckin’ weirdo, sure. Crazy cat lady, fine. But not loser. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/24 "2014-05-28T18:38:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I should also add that there are plenty of women who do initiate. They just don’t “initiate” with a cheesy pick-up line. They ask if you can help them with their stats homework or if you wouldn’t mind helping them with a couple of heavy boxes. They aren’t going to say, “I WANT YOU TO HAVE SEX WITH ME NOW!” But they will initiate in other ways. You just have to know how to read the signals. I agree. Smart people will titrate the amount of effort they expend in initiating based on the quality and quantity of people they attract by not initiating. If they attract good people through little effort, they don’t have much reason to initiate. If they attract no people, then they will need to initiate if they are going to get the results they want. This is why I don’t understand men who complain about women not initiating. If not initiating “works” for someone (regardless of gender), then why shouldn’t they keep doing what works? Because that doesn’t help _you_ get laid? That just looks like a way to externalize blame rather than accept responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/25 "2014-05-28T18:48:45Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’m always being called cold and callous and suchlike, but I’ve still got friends. One of whom went out with a rapist, and he didn’t have any troubles, and even though he’s a small, weak, unattractive, poor and unpleasant person he doesn’t have any trouble with women even now, despite his history of alleged sexual assault and also fraud on the benefits system. > > So I still don’t quite believe it. He just must have been in a better position than seems. I don’t understand what it is that you don’t believe. That the guy gave off creepy vibes sufficient to interfere with relationship formation? What’s so hard to believe about that? We are talking about a mass murderer. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/26 "2014-05-28T19:43:13Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **AHunter3** , just because men are traditionally seen as the one who initiate doesn’t mean that women can get away with passivity. Men look for signals of receptiveness. Eye contact. A friendly smile. The sound of engagement when she responds to a greeting. Reciprocation when asked how they are doing. These are active, deliberate actions. The opposite of passive. Agreed. And regardless of which sex you are, if you are not a likely initiator you need to learn how to do these things instead. You can’t just sit back in complete passivity and expect things to happen. > [@monstro](#): > > I should also add that there are plenty of women who do initiate. They just don’t “initiate” with a cheesy pick-up line. They ask if you can help them with their stats homework or if you wouldn’t mind helping them with a couple of heavy boxes. They aren’t going to say, “I WANT YOU TO HAVE SEX WITH ME NOW!” But they will initiate in other ways. You just have to know how to read the signals. Read and send. If done properly, you can do quite an interactive dance with no one specifically being “the initiator”, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/27 "2014-05-28T20:27:28Z")
Outside of romantic relationships, I think the burden of initiating/supporting interpersonal relationships falls disproportionately on women. I am always shocked how many women do all the extended family coordinating/organizing for both sides of the family–it’s their job to keep up with when it’s their mother-in-law’s birthday and arrange an appropriate gift. At a party, it’s the hostess, not the host, that works the crowd and makes sure everyone is talking to someone. A man can sit on the couch and watch the crowd, a woman really can’t–she needs to be actively talking, or she looks weird. In an office, it’s always a woman who organizes baby showers and happy hours and gets flowers sent to the person in the hospital. If two couples meet, the wives will take the initiative to establish common ground. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/28 "2014-05-28T20:56:37Z")
I spent my late teens and twenties miserable because I had lots of trouble getting dates, but I didn’t blame anyone but myself. I would occasionally ask someone out, and maybe one in three or four times I might get one date out of it. Most of the time, though, I was paralyzed by fear of rejection. Not that I wanted pity anyway, but no one was going to look at me and say “oh look at that poor, homely guy no one wants to go out with.” It was more “plenty of women would want to go out with him if he weren’t so terrified of being rejected.” I was almost never approached; I think my wife may have been just the second (the other lost interest after one date). Unfortunately, most of the time when I gathered up the courage to take baby steps I got shot down. Here’s an example: a coworker told me someone in another department was interested in going out with me, even saying she wanted me to ask her out. I did, and she said “I don’t know.” When coworker asked me what happened, I told him. Later I hear, “she wants to be pursued.” Since I was 30 at the time, I had no interest in middle school games. A few days later I met “the one.” Would I still be insecure at almost 50 if I hadn’t met my wife? Probably so. There have been times when my wife has said something about how a woman was looking at me, and I saw nothing out of the ordinary. I may be wrong, but my suspicion is that I am socially handicapped and lucked into meeting someone who was willing to approach me. Of course I had been in a relationship of a few months less than a year before we met and got dumped, so my wife must have seen something that my previous girlfriend didn’t. I feel terrible for folks on this board who are going through what I did, and really wish I could say something that would help. Unfortunately, the only advice I can give is to stand near the keg when you go to a party. It worked for me. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/29 "2014-05-29T00:24:15Z")
The guy had social anxiety and did not feel he was able to initiate social contact as a result. He wasn’t too dumb to figure out that he should or too lazy to bother. Unfortunately, he was so creepy that people didn’t want anything to do with him. Were it not for his social anxiety, he’d probably have been just another rapist/abusive bully. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/30 "2014-05-29T17:23:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t understand what it is that you don’t believe. That the guy gave off creepy vibes sufficient to interfere with relationship formation? What’s so hard to believe about that? We are talking about a mass murderer. Well, like I say, I knew a creepy dude who turned out to be a rapist, he went out with one of my friends. I think he still owes her money. I also knew another bloke, no trouble with people, who went to prison for a hate crime. He was a schoolfriend of mine and ended up in prison for trying to murder an immigrant by cracking his skull open with a brick in front of the man’s family. Failed, firstly because his victim survived, and secondly because he turned out not to be an immigrant after all. Anyway, they did fine with women and people in general. Creepy as fuck, as far as I could tell, but still did fine. The rapist chap was even approached by my friend in the first place, as she’s quite an aggressive woman. Last time I saw he she was sexually harrassing a security guard, in fact. But I know he’s had other girls even since the rape thing, and he isn’t very aggressive himself. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/31 "2014-05-29T17:46:28Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Well, like I say, I knew a creepy dude who turned out to be a rapist, he went out with one of my friends. I think he still owes her money. Well, for all we know, the shooter _was_ invited to things and treated like a potential friend, but his warped perception prevented him from seeing positive interactions for what they were. A guy like him might have thought an offer of friendship was actually a ploy to humiliate him later, and a smile from a stranger was really a grimace. Imagine the most insecure and self-loathing person you know and multiply their attitude a 1000 times. Would that person really believe anyone could be their friend or be interested in them romantically? We can’t really take his account of reality at face value. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397/32 "2014-05-29T19:31:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Well, for all we know, the shooter _was_ invited to things and treated like a potential friend, but his warped perception prevented him from seeing positive interactions for what they were. A guy like him might have thought an offer of friendship was actually a ploy to humiliate him later, and a smile from a stranger was really a grimace. Imagine the most insecure and self-loathing person you know and multiply their attitude a 1000 times. Would that person really believe anyone could be their friend or be interested in them romantically? > > We can’t really take his account of reality at face value. Maybe he could have failed to perceive the expressions or overtures of strangers correctly, but he did have actual friends for most of his life (by his own account) and they ended up not wanting to have anything to do with him, no doubt alienated by his horrible personality. Over the course of his life, he seems to have gone from shy/immature/awkward to bitter/angry/aggressive as a result of his social incompetence. Even his interactions on message boards he frequented were mostly people mocking him for his ridiculous attitude, unimpressive physique, etc. It’s especially weird because his parents even hired social therapists to help him, yet obviously they failed completely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-burden-of-being-pro-active-in-interpersonal-relations/689397.md?page=1)