# The Bush apology was wrung out of him by staff! Is he a psychopath? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217 "2004-05-08T20:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217/41 "2004-05-12T02:59:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I was unaware that you (or anyone else who prattles about the psychopathology of Bush) are a practicing shrink who has evaluated Bush in person over a sufficient period to make such a diagnosis. If you are going to quote my post, it would be nice if you would read my post. I explicitly disavowed any “diagnoses” regarding my opinions of the president and I explicitly denied that I felt that he was actually psychologically disturbed. You asked what ailment, described in the DSM-IV, was associated with an inability to apologize and I provided an example of one. Until such time as I actually “prattle on about the psychopathology of Bush,” your comments would indicate that you are not actually reading the posts to which you are responding. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217/42 "2004-05-12T03:57:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you are going to quote my post, it would be nice if you would read my post. > > I explicitly disavowed any “diagnoses” regarding my opinions of the president and I explicitly denied that I felt that he was actually psychologically disturbed. You asked what ailment, described in the DSM-IV, was associated with an inability to apologize and I provided an example of one. Are we to be bound henceforth that no disconnect between goals and behavior, no manifestation of confusion, no residua of prior substance abuse, no amount of denial of reality–all these we must put aside, take this fried refugee from a twelve step program at face value, and never ask ourselves, good god, how can he be so out of touch? We don’t tneed dsm critera to see someone who is not processing the world around him to minimal higher primate standards… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217/43 "2004-05-12T04:03:09Z")
I am quite capable of viewing a man’s failings without immediately ascribing them to mental illness or diminished capacity. (After all, if he is sick or stupid, then he cannot be held responsible for his actions.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217/44 "2004-05-12T12:58:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you are going to quote my post, it would be nice if you would read my post. > > I explicitly disavowed any “diagnoses” regarding my opinions of the president and I explicitly denied that I felt that he was actually psychologically disturbed. Here’s what you said: > [@tomndebb](#): > > Try Pervasive Developmental Disorder, NOS. The subject is (among other issues) incapable of admitting error and finds it nearly physically painful to apologize (because that would indicate that the problem or incident was not really all the fault of other persons). The DSM-IV does not list a failure to apologize, explicitly, but I can attest from personal experience with a victim of that syndrome that it is part of the constellation of symptoms. ( **Interestingly, PDD-NOS also manifests in problems with verbal communication.** ) > Mind you, I do not believe that GWB is **psychotic** , (smug self-righteousness combined with intellectual laziness provides adequate explanations for his actions), but the question was whether one might find a condition related to a failure to apologize in the DSM-IV. So you didn’t “disavow” any diagnosis - in fact you added your opinions about Bush having less than stellar communication skills in insinuating that this makes him a candidate for “Pervasive Developmental Disorder” - _a psychological disturbance_ (He’s not **psychotic** , laziness and self-righteousness are adequate explanations for _me_, but here’s a jim-dandy psychiatric diagnosis that fits the bill). Again, this is a species of parlor psychology which I find objectionable in general (there are probably one or more diagnoses in the DSM relating to denial of one’s comments and actions, but I am not going there) and politically risky. When I saw your original post I briefly wondered if someone else was posting under your name, as your contributions are usually more thoughtful. Based on the followup, one hopes that you’re just having a bad week. Speaking of “intellectual laziness”, I can think of no better example than the tendency to indulge in endless personal diatribes against a politician one dislikes (Bush, Clinton etc.) instead of concentrating on the actual issues. War, the economy, energy issues, environmental degradation - nah, let’s get back to name-calling. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217/45 "2004-05-12T16:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, this is a species of parlor psychology which I find objectionable in general It is not parlor psychology; it is being a smart-ass, which is why I provided the explicit disclaimer regarding Bush’s mental state and continue to oppose **alaricthegoth** ’s viewpoint. As to Bush’s intellectual laziness, I have posted on the topic before and it is not a matter of name-calling; it is a very specific analysis of how Bush makes as many mistakes as he continues to make, (from correctly withdrawing from Kyoto in the worst possible way to pushing his weakening of the SOCAS through his “faith based initiatives” to the obsession for attacking Iraq that I have remarked upon several times in the _years_ before Richard Clark’s recent publicity). His self-righteousness has been demonstrated on several occasions (such as when he indicated that he got his _advice_ from God rather than seeking advice from his own former president father). What is more self-righteous than claiming that one is carrying out the explicit instructions of God? Seeking moral guidance for general directions from God makes sense for a religious person. Seeking to justify specific actions by avoiding actual advice and getting it through prayer implies that he could not possibly misunderstand the message–a pretty clearly self-righteous position. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217/46 "2004-05-12T20:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=JackmanniiSpeaking of “intellectual laziness”, I can think of no better example than the tendency to indulge in endless personal diatribes against a politician one dislikes (Bush, Clinton etc.) instead of concentrating on the actual issues. War, the economy, energy issues, environmental degradation - nah, let’s get back to name-calling.[/QUOTE] At the risk of presuming too far, I will step up to the plate and assume this is for me. What can I say? I am flummoxed, and terrified. I was so hoping it was merely a recognizable pathology of one sort or another, but taking t&d at face value, good grief!! The unexamined life, as they say, … To say that Buish is not prone to introspection is a commonplace, but when everything that you are doing is turning to shit, when does reality begin to bite, so to speak? I mean, even someone who’s self righteous can, with efficacy, decide to fake an apology, and carry through for half an hour of apologetic fakery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-apology-was-wrung-out-of-him-by-staff-is-he-a-psychopath/244217.md?page=2)