# The Bush Family is a Cancer on America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521 "2008-05-16T04:03:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/1 "2008-05-16T04:03:06Z")
Now, I have for a long time believe that the Bushes have been working to insinuate themselves into a sort of American Aristocracy/Oligarchy since Prescott Bush. For the past three generations they have made their plays for the Presidency, and succeeded twice, each time subverting America toward their own ends. Now, I know this is fodder for conspiracy, but I’m going to come right out and say it, I do believe the Bush family is engaged in a conspiracy to subvery American democracy. I think it is willful and conscious and has been a long term plan passed from Father to son every since Prescott rose to power on the back of his Father Samuel’s Standard Oil fortune. This article [http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651](http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651) only cements the idea further in my mind. I know people are a fan of scoffing at conspiracies, and believe me I don’t go in for the Illuminati there is a cabal of 9 demons running everything style of conspiracies, but I do think that conspiracy is normal politics by normal means, and that plays for power occur all the time. To think otherwise, is in my mind, naive. I do not believe that Skull and Bones is a mere Fraternity where people get drunk and wear togas and bone sorority chicks. I think it is much deeper and more far reaching than that. However, I don’t want to get too far outside of what I see as the agenda of the Bush family, which here I will classify as the attempt to create around themselves a hereditary elite, to become American royalty. I think this bears out in the careers of the Bushes from Prescott to W. Neoconservatism has done a great deal to undermine our Democracy, and I think that it is a much longer thread than we generally are willing to accept, because most people do not think in familial dynastic terms. Now, I am going to bed. I will come back later and see what responses I’ve gotten, and I will flesh this out with more cites for people after I see what kind of responses I get. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/2 "2008-05-16T04:43:16Z")
If your thesis is true, Old man Prescott must be rotating so fast that you could generate a lot of electricity. Dubbya has put an end to any hope of a Bush dynasty. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/3 "2008-05-16T04:48:00Z")
And your point is? After all, the same could be said of the Roosevelts and the Kennedys, not to mention a certain family in and around Boston with the name of Adams. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/4 "2008-05-16T05:35:36Z")
I agree with the OP. It’s not like it’s that unusual for powerful families to try to turn themselves into the permanent government; quite a few have succeeded. I also agree that it’s silly to scoff at conspiracies just because they are conspiracies; on the contrary, I consider them the norm. We just have this odd habit of labeling any conspiracy that’s proven to be true as something else than a conspiracy ( a “hoax”, a “-gate”, a “backroom deal”, a “scandal”, etc ), and go on denying that conspiracies exist. [QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] And your point is? After all, the same could be said of the Roosevelts and the Kennedys, not to mention a certain family in and around Boston with the name of Adams [/QUOTE] The Bush family is more repellent, has done more damage to the country, and is the one presently in the White House. Personally, I don’t want **any** family to become the American “royal family”, even if they never officially call themselves that. Hereditary rule has a poor track record. One thing I’m glad of, is that it looks highly unlikely that the next President will be a Bush, a Clinton, a Kennedy, or anyone else from a family that’s had a President in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/5 "2008-05-16T06:13:19Z")
Here is a rebuttal to my OP. [http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/the-plot-agains.html](http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/the-plot-agains.html) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/6 "2008-05-16T06:20:14Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Here is a rebuttal to my OP. [http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/the-plot-agains.html](http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/the-plot-agains.html) [/QUOTE] How does the Butler-putsch story rebut your OP? Btw, I’ve known that story for over 20 years- Antony Sutton’s WALL ST AND FDR tells all about it. Btw, Sutton’s WALL ST trilogy is the best Conspiracy-Theory documentating books I’ve seen (WALL ST AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION, … AND FDR, … AND THE RISE OF HITLER). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/7 "2008-05-16T06:23:44Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] How does the Butler-putsch story rebut your OP? Btw, I’ve known that story for over 20 years- Antony Sutton’s WALL ST AND FDR tells all about it. Btw, Sutton’s WALL ST trilogy is the best Conspiracy-Theory documentating books I’ve seen (WALL ST AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION, … AND FDR, … AND THE RISE OF HITLER). [/QUOTE] The only book I’ve read by Sutton is his ‘America’s Secret Establishment’. He’s quite good and cites his sources quite meticulously, a rare commodity amongst conspiracy theorists. I’ll have to get Wall St. and the Bolshevik Revolution. Currently I am reading, “Soldiers of Reason: The Rand Corporation and the Rise of the American Empire.”, it’s most illuminating. I didn’t say it succeeds in rebutting my thesis, only that it is a rebuttal. I am not prepared yet to expand on what I posited in the beginning, as I want to see some other responses before I proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/8 "2008-05-16T08:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I do believe the Bush family is engaged in a conspiracy to subvery American democracy. I think it is willful and conscious and has been a long term plan passed from Father to son every since Prescott rose to power on the back of his Father Samuel’s Standard Oil fortune. [/QUOTE] I had to look up ‘subvery’ because I’d never heard it before, and since I didn’t find it I assume you meant subvert :smack:. So, to what end do you think they want to subvert our democracy? Isn’t that, on some scale, the goal of every politician- to change things around, to run things how they see fit? Do you fear that we are in danger of them succeeding? Are you a declare martial law and suspend elections type, or do you think we can all breathe a sigh of relief next January? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/9 "2008-05-16T08:32:47Z")
Internet books by Sutton - Wall St & Hitler [http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-hitler.html](http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-hitler.html) Wall St & FDR [http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-fdr.html](http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-fdr.html) Wall St & Bolshevik Revolution [http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-bolshevik-rev.html](http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-bolshevik-rev.html) The Best Enemy that Money Can Buy (US build-up of USSR military) > **[WebMD - Better information. Better health.](https://www.webmd.com/)** > > The leading source for trustworthy and timely health and medical news and information. Providing credible health information, supportive community, and educational services by blending award-winning expertise in content, community services, expert... ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/10 "2008-05-16T08:37:23Z")
Coming to a White House near you in 2013: President Jeb Bush? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/11 "2008-05-16T08:41:41Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] The only book I’ve read by Sutton is his ‘America’s Secret Establishment’. He’s quite good and cites his sources quite meticulously, a rare commodity amongst conspiracy theorists. [/QUOTE] :dubious: From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > In the early 1980s, using membership lists purportedly revealing the historical membership of Yale’s Skull and Bones society, dating from 1832 – which Sutton said he received from an anonymous source – he speculated about political and economic relationships underlying significant historical events, from which he extrapolated the apparent purpose of these relationships. He published these conclusions as _America’s Secret Establishment_ Doesn’t seem so meticulously sourced and cited to me. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/12 "2008-05-16T08:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] :dubious: From Wikipedia: Doesn’t seem so meticulously sourced and cited to me. [/QUOTE] He does have more sources than the Wikipedia article indicates, but ASE is not the most organized & documented of his books, and he can also make wild leaps of conjecture. The Wall St trilogy is much better on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/13 "2008-05-16T09:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] he can also make wild leaps of conjecture [/QUOTE] At least you can admit it. There are some conspiracy theorists out there that I suspect might have a good thing or two to say, and if they could only admit this, I imagine a lot more people would listen. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/14 "2008-05-16T09:29:30Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] I had to look up ‘subvery’ because I’d never heard it before, and since I didn’t find it I assume you meant subvert :smack:. So, to what end do you think they want to subvert our democracy? [/quote] He’s already said it’s to make themselves royalty in America. Maybe not with titles, but their family would run things in American politics the way the Tudors ran things in England. > [@](#): > > Isn’t that, on some scale, the goal of every politician- to change things around, to run things how they see fit? No. Subverting democracy means opposing democratic institutions. You know, things like fixing the vote so your guy gets elected no matter what. Like Huey Long did. Or like the Bushes did in Florida in 2000. Not every politician wants to do that. > [@](#): > > Do you fear that we are in danger of them succeeding? What’s the name of our current President again? Can anybody help me out there? And what did Karl Rove do exactly to help him get elected? > [@](#): > > Are you a declare martial law and suspend elections type, or do you think we can all breathe a sigh of relief next January? Hopefully a Dem president and Congress will be careful to dismantle the political machinery that Bush has set up to create the “Imperial Presidency” should they get elected. If that doesn’t happen, democracy in America is in serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/15 "2008-05-16T09:34:24Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] So, to what end do you think they want to subvert our democracy? [/QUOTE] Most likely to set themselves up as the permanent ruling family, and the Republicans as the ruling party of a one party state. Remember the supposed permanent Republican majority we were going to have ? [QUOTE=Cisco] Do you fear that we are in danger of them succeeding? Are you a declare martial law and suspend elections type, or do you think we can all breathe a sigh of relief next January? [/QUOTE] At this point no; they screwed up too badly. At least not right away; but they’ve laid a lot of groundwork for a more capable second attempt by someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/16 "2008-05-16T09:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I agree with the OP. It’s not like it’s that unusual for powerful families to try to turn themselves into the permanent government; quite a few have succeeded. I also agree that it’s silly to scoff at conspiracies just because they are conspiracies; on the contrary, I consider them the norm. We just have this odd habit of labeling any conspiracy that’s proven to be true as something else than a conspiracy ( a “hoax”, a “-gate”, a “backroom deal”, a “scandal”, etc ), and go on denying that conspiracies exist. [/quote] I think part of the problem is that many Americans use the term “conspire” very loosely, to describe any organized effort. But it’s not really a conspiracy unless secrecy is involved. For example, some might say “The Catholic Church is conspiring to prevent Americans from having access to birth control techniques and medications.” Well, no. Opposition to most forms of birth control is a very public part of Catholic doctrine, there’s no conspiracy involved. The Catholic Church DID conspire to prevent their pedophile preists from being visited with the legal consequences of their actions – secrecy was DEFINITELY involved there. ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/17 "2008-05-16T09:44:54Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Here is a rebuttal to my OP. [http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/the-plot-agains.html](http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/the-plot-agains.html) [/QUOTE] Which really is just more grist for the propaganda mill the above article conveniently left out the conclusion of the wikipedia entry “with companies owned by Fritz Thyssen. The BBC found no evidence of involvement by any leading American businessmen in any Fascist plots.” so as not to contradict **Sony Pictures** movie “weapons of mass distortion” advertisement in the articles sidebar. Insidious and seductive, they are! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/18 "2008-05-16T11:09:15Z")
The 1st generation _builds_ the family fortune, then 2nd generation _enlarges_ the family fortune, the 3rd & 4th _pisses it away_. This is a general rule, & I suspect the Bushes are fading away, very soon. ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/19 "2008-05-16T11:25:31Z")
I disagree with the OP. The point of the propaganda article cited is to mislead one to conclude a Bush family dynasty when one does not exist. The cite of propaganda in the OP says “Prescott Bush was of course deep into the business of the Hamburg-America Lines, and had tight relations throughout this period with the new Government that had come to power in Germany a year earlier under Chancellor Aldoph Hitler.” . . The role of the most powerful political dynastic family in the nation’s history in this whole affair is **shocking**. all opinions of the author writing to inflame and mislead. And the lies are perpetuated and reinforced by the ‘assumed’ real people posting to web logs that follow. Conniving and sly, they are! ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521/20 "2008-05-16T11:43:54Z")
I agree conspiracy is normal politics by normal means and is used to hoax the easily swayed as was done using propaganda of the two cites. [http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651](http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651) [http://economistsview.typepad.com/e...lot-agains.html](http://economistsview.typepad.com/e...lot-agains.html) 1)None of the evidence you’ve provided for conspiracy existing holds up/you have provided no evidence for a conspiracy 2)therefore we have no reason to suppose a conspiracy exists. [QUOTE=Der Trihs] Taking the view that you’ll believe anything you want to believe unless disproof is found is simply an excuse for a trip to fantasyland, in almost all cases. [/QUOTE] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bush-family-is-a-cancer-on-america/449521.md?page=2)