# The Caine Mutiny---Was Queeg really crazy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719 "2015-02-15T14:32:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/61 "2015-02-18T05:05:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yes, in his lower postings Queeg could rack up a good sheet of positive evaluations, earning them fair and square. I could imagine in WW2 you’d be expanding, and replacing losses, so fast that “Needs of the Service” requires a billet be filled with whoever’s the next man standing with the major checkboxes ticked, and let’s not be too picky if he’s no John Paul Jones… and Queeg had the checkmarks. And let’s keep in mind the USS Caine was NOT a carrier, battleship, cruiser, destroyer, tanker, freighter, or troop transport. It was just a mine sweeper. And Queeg was a member of the AAA (Association of Annapolis Alumni). He had the major boxes checked, probably no boxes had minuses, and few, if any, pluses. Those non-negative marks and ratings and the AAA membership were enough to give him the benefit of the doubt and a minor first command at sea. He was a staff officer at heart, not a line officer. He’d have probably done well commanding a supply depot. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/62 "2015-02-18T11:05:52Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > And let’s keep in mind the USS Caine was NOT a carrier, battleship, cruiser, destroyer, tanker, freighter, or troop transport. It was just a mine sweeper. And Queeg was a member of the AAA (Association of Annapolis Alumni). He had the major boxes checked, probably no boxes had minuses, and few, if any, pluses. Those non-negative marks and ratings and the AAA membership were enough to give him the benefit of the doubt and a minor first command at sea. > > He was a staff officer at heart, not a line officer. He’d have probably done well commanding a supply depot. He was a decent non-war officer, but when the stresses of war hit, he flaked out. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/63 "2015-02-18T16:11:39Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > BTW, decades ago, I saw a Broadway production of \*\*\*The Caine Mutiny Court-Martial \*\*\*at the Circle in the Square Theater. I liked it enough to see it a second time. > > The first time, Michael Moriarty played Queeg. The second, time, Moriarty had switched to playing defense lawyer Barney Greenwald, and Queeg was played by Philip Bosco. Strangely enough, in the first show, Maryk was played by James WIddoes (Hoover in _ **Animal House** _), while Joe Namath was playing the role in the second one! > > Back to my point: if you’d seen Moriarty as Queeg, you’d have come away thinking, “Hell yes, Queeg is crazy! He’s a dangerous maniac convinced of his own righteousness.” If you’d seen Bosco, you would have felt sorry for Queeg, just as you did when Bogart played him. > > A good actor can do a lot of different things with Queeg. Moriarty made him scary, while Bosco made him pathetic. Hmmm … very interesting. I had never considered that point and it is truly fascinating that diff actors can make characters come alive in such diff ways. Nice post! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/64 "2015-02-18T16:16:39Z")
I found one. Eric Bogosian … Lt. Barney Greenwald Jeff Daniels … Lt. Steve Maryk Brad Davis … Lt. Cmdr. Phillip Francis Queeg Peter Gallagher … Lt. Cmdr. John Challee Michael Murphy … Capt. Blakely Kevin J. O’Connor … Lt. Thomas Keefer Daniel Jenkins … Lt. Willis Keith Danny Darst … Capt. Randolph Southard Ken Michels … Dr. Bird _[excessive quoted text removed- Ivorytowerdenizen]_ ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/65 "2015-02-18T16:18:32Z")
It’s a TV show starring Eric Bogosian and Jeff Daniels. It was directed by Robert Altman. He is the father of Alan Alda. I will try to get more info for you later. But you must be very careful because it is a very strict rule here that you are not permitted to discuss downloading shared software from a site considered illegal. Also, you must not advise anyone about techniques how to do that. You can get into a huge mess if you do that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/66 "2015-02-18T16:41:37Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Robert Altman. He is the father of Alan Alda. Um, no, Robert Alda the Broadway actor is not Robert Altman the film director, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/67 "2015-02-18T16:45:41Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > It was directed by Robert Altman. He is the father of Alan Alda. Not so. Alan Alda’s father is Robert Alda, also an actor (did a lot of TV guest spots in the '70s). Robert Altman directed _MASH_ (the 1970 movie), but Alan Alda didn’t take on the role of Hawkeye until the TV series. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/68 "2015-02-18T17:19:47Z")
Oh no. Very sorry. Bad mistake. I guess I was preoccupied with thinking about that huge mess. I apologize for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/69 "2015-02-18T18:10:26Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Oh no. Very sorry. > > Bad mistake. I guess I was preoccupied with thinking about that huge mess. > > I apologize for the confusion. That’s okay, Charlie Mike. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/70 "2015-02-18T18:35:43Z")
Queeg wasn’t much of a commander under stress, but not all his actions are signs of incompetency or mental illness. Real life commanders not widely regarded as insane did similar things. George Patton obsessed [over things like dress regulations too](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton). During the North Africa campaign, he rigidly enforced uniform regulations and military protocol among his men. I can easily see George presiding over a strawberry incident, for what that’s worth. Of course, Patton wasn’t a coward while Queeg arguably was. It was the cowardice that was the problem. In a man like Queeg all the other stuff becomes a problem. In a man like Patton, they become the interesting quirks of a strong commander. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/71 "2015-02-18T22:28:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > In the book Queeg _ **is** _ a much younger officer than as portrayed by Bogart, the \*Caine, \*which is in no way a prestige billet, is his first ship command under fire. I hadn’t thought about it but you’re right - if Queeg had joined the Navy just out of college and was the “red hot Ensign Queeg of 1936” (as Keefer sarcastically described him after hearing the story of Queeg’s career highlight about the copied icebox key), he’d be at most in his mid-thirties in 1944, 15-20 years younger than Bogart at the time of filming. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/72 "2015-02-18T23:38:26Z")
**Charlie Wayne** Do not quote material without attributing the source. The material you posted appears to be from various IMDB entries. When quoting, do not post more than a few lines. No warning issued, but don’t do that again. > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I found one. > Eric Bogosian … Lt. Barney Greenwald > Jeff Daniels … Lt. Steve Maryk > Brad Davis … Lt. Cmdr. Phillip Francis Queeg > Peter Gallagher … Lt. Cmdr. John Challee > Michael Murphy … Capt. Blakely > Kevin J. O’Connor … Lt. Thomas Keefer > Daniel Jenkins … Lt. Willis Keith > Danny Darst … Capt. Randolph Southard > Ken Michels … Dr. Bird > > _[excessive quoted text removed- Ivorytowerdenizen]_ ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/73 "2015-02-19T03:31:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … he’d be at most in his mid-thirties in 1944, 15-20 years younger than Bogart at the time of filming. This struck me about the movie - perhaps because I had a relative who was Captain of a WW2 destroyer-minesweeper (bigger than the Caine) at the age of 23 (he was one of the youngest guys on board). ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/74 "2015-02-19T06:33:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I hadn’t thought about it but you’re right - if Queeg had joined the Navy just out of college and was the “red hot Ensign Queeg of 1936” (as Keefer sarcastically described him after hearing the story of Queeg’s career highlight about the copied icebox key), he’d be at most in his mid-thirties in 1944, 15-20 years younger than Bogart at the time of filming. Queeg didn’t exactly just join the Navy just out of college. He was an Annapolis graduate, so he sort of joined the Navy during the summer he first reported there, before the “freshman” year started. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719/75 "2015-02-20T23:49:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I asked earlier, but no one has answered… What would the most likely outcome have been if the three officers had talked their problems out with the Admiral? > > Would he have stepped in like a white knight and fixed things up…or would he have just thrown them out of his office and told them, “Don’t go over your Captain’s head, ever?” Interesting question. Halsey himself was a replacement for Vice Admiral Robert Ghormley, who was seen by Admiral Nimitz as weak and indecisive. > **[Robert L. Ghormley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Ghormley)** > > Vice Admiral Robert Lee Ghormley (October 15, 1883 – June 21, 1958) was an admiral in the United States Navy who served as commander, South Pacific Area during World War II. Ghormley was long considered to be an ineffective leader–overly cautious, pessimistic, and even defeatist–but recent scholarship has argued that while he may not have been an inspiring leader, he performed well enough under difficult circumstances. > Born in Portland, Oregon, Ghormley was the oldest of six children to a Pres... Halsey was aggressive, sometimes too aggressive for his own good as at the Battle of Leyte Gulf > **[Battle of Leyte Gulf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leyte_Gulf#Halsey.27s_decision_.2824_October.29)** > > 3rd Fleet > 7th Fleet > Combined Fleet I imagine the Caine officers would have needed complete information on all of Queeg’s actions [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-caine-mutiny-was-queeg-really-crazy/712719.md?page=3)