# The California Raisins; The Noid; Speedy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932 "2013-12-10T00:16:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/1 "2013-12-10T00:16:13Z")
All these claymation characters were popular way back when; why not anymore? BTW–I’ll toss in the Hamm’s Bear as a great why no more as well, although that was cel animation. I assume some people here would know. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/2 "2013-12-10T00:18:47Z")
Fads, nothing more. Demand for the California Raisins just dried up. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/3 "2013-12-10T00:20:40Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > All these claymation characters were popular way back when; why not anymore? BTW–I’ll toss in the Hamm’s Bear as a great why no more as well, although that was cel animation. I assume some people here would know. People have gotten used to computer generated animation and other animation styles look “old”. Advertisers generally want to associate their products with “new”. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/4 "2013-12-10T00:34:40Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Fads, nothing more. Demand for the California Raisins just dried up. Viewers expect something more currant. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/5 "2013-12-10T00:35:50Z")
CG animation is a lot better and cheaper now ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/6 "2013-12-10T05:32:52Z")
Because, as an 80’s kid, the Conductor from that Raisins Christmas Special and the Noid were creepy as hell. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/7 "2013-12-10T13:14:22Z")
Complicated. The characters are the creations of Will Vinton Productions, whose work I loved. They created and trademarked the term “Claymation”, which everyone uses as indiscriminately today as they do “Kleenex” or “Google”. His shorts, shown at animation festivals and on PBS, were wonderful. I particularly love the one on Dinosaurs, and his feature-length film **the Adventures of Mark Twain**. He also did effects for the Disney film **Return to Oz** , as well as 3D Claymation effects for the Disney park 3D Michael Jackson movie **Captain EO**. As well, of course, as the Noid and California Raisin commercials. (These commercials, by the way, were in the cinematic release of **The Festival of Claymation** , but are missing from the Home Video version. Copyright and licensing issues, no doubt. Also missing from the home version is the music video for John Fogerty’s **Vantz can’t Dance** , which is a real shame. You can watch it here: [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x219s9\_john-fogerty-vanz-can-t-danz\_music](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x219s9_john-fogerty-vanz-can-t-danz_music) ) All of this was, in my humble opinion, horribly underrated. Vinton shoulda been the success that Aardman animation later was with their stop-motion plasticene (_Chicken Run, Wallace and Grommit_) But evidently Vinton’;s studio was successful, if not so highly visible. Then he lost control. To cite Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > By the end of the 1990s, the Vinton studio, seeking funds for more feature-length films, had become big enough to bring in outside investors, which included shoe company Nike, Inc. owner Phil Knight and his son, Travis, who had worked at the studio as an animator. > > In 2002, Vinton lost control of the studio he founded after Knight became the majority shareholder and Vinton failed to garner funds for further feature production in Los Angeles, eventually being dismissed from the studio. Vinton later sought damages for this and sued for ownership of his name. In 2005, the successor to Will Vinton Studios, Laika, was founded. Premiere stop-motion animator/director Henry Selick joined the studio as supervising director. > > Vinton has since founded a new production facility, Will Vinton’s Freewill Entertainment, also based in Portland. Vinton is also associated with the Portland branch of The Art Institutes and maintains an office there as an artist in residence.[3] The Creative Artists Agency in Beverly Hills represents Vinton for production projects.[4] Projects include a graphic novel called Jack Hightower produced in tandem with Dark Horse comics.[5] In 2005 Vinton produced The Morning After, the first short film under the new company. The film combines CGI and live action. > **[Will Vinton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Vinton)** > > William Gale Vinton (November 17, 1947 – October 4, 2018) was an American animator and filmmaker. Vinton was best known for his Claymation work, alongside creating iconic characters such as The California Raisins. He won an Oscar for his work alongside several Emmy Awards and Clio Awards for his studio's work. > Vinton was born on November 17, 1947, to a car dealer father and a bookkeeper mother in McMinnville, Oregon. His paternal grandfather, William T. Vinton, was a well known state senator i... Without Vinton doing it, what’s the point of the Noid and the California Raisins? I think they just decided to move on to other images. as for Speedy, he long predates Vinton, being created in 1951 by animator George Pal, and I don’t think Vinton ever animated him. I know I’ve seen him computer-animated in the recent past. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/8 "2013-12-10T14:27:17Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Viewers expect something more currant. Boooooo!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/9 "2013-12-10T18:33:50Z")
I imagine that Hamm’s would run into the same issues these days using cute animated animals as Camel did with their animated, much less child-friendly, mascot. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/10 "2013-12-10T19:20:30Z")
_From the Land of Sky Blue waters (waters)… Comes the beer refreshing Hamm’s, the beer refreshing…_ I still remember that jingle well. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/11 "2013-12-10T19:49:45Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I imagine that Hamm’s would run into the same issues these days using cute animated animals as Camel did with their animated, much less child-friendly, mascot. Or Bud Light, with Spuds McKenzie. Cute / cartoon mascots for alcohol or cigarettes are almost undoubtedly a thing of the past. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/12 "2013-12-11T04:24:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > People have gotten used to computer generated animation and other animation styles look “old”. Advertisers generally want to associate their products with “new”. As an example, the [second “sequel”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer_and_the_Island_of_Misfit_Toys) to the Rankin-Bass Rudolph special was in CG, and that was back in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/13 "2013-12-12T00:20:07Z")
@Cal Meacham: Thank you so much for the detailed information. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/14 "2013-12-12T00:24:42Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Fads, nothing more. Demand for the California Raisins just dried up. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Viewers expect something more currant. The drive for bran new things is relentless. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/15 "2013-12-12T05:57:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Complicated. The characters are the creations of Will Vinton Productions, whose work I loved. They created and trademarked the term “Claymation”, which everyone uses as indiscriminately today as they do “Kleenex” or “Google”. His shorts, shown at animation festivals and on PBS, were wonderful. I particularly love the one on Dinosaurs, and his feature-length film **the Adventures of Mark Twain**. He also did effects for the Disney film **Return to Oz** , as well as 3D Claymation effects for the Disney park 3D Michael Jackson movie **Captain EO**. As well, of course, as the Noid and California Raisin commercials. (These commercials, by the way, were in the cinematic release of **The Festival of Claymation** , but are missing from the Home Video version. Copyright and licensing issues, no doubt. Also missing from the home version is the music video for John Fogerty’s **Vantz can’t Dance** , which is a real shame. You can watch it here: [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x219s9\_john-fogerty-vanz-can-t-danz\_music](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x219s9_john-fogerty-vanz-can-t-danz_music) ) > > All of this was, in my humble opinion, horribly underrated. Vinton shoulda been the success that Aardman animation later was with their stop-motion plasticene (_Chicken Run, Wallace and Grommit_) All of Vinton’s stuff was _technically_ masterful, but as a kid it all struck me as vaguely creepy and unappealing, like some adult’s idea of what kids _should_ like who just didn’t get it. As an adult, I still feel the same way. (That vague creepiness was put to very good use in “Return to Oz,” BTW.) Aardman’s stuff, by comparison, is instantly appealing and cute without being cutesy. Nick Park may not have made the technical innovations Vinton did, but in terms of artistic style, he’s miles ahead. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/16 "2013-12-12T13:15:50Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > All of Vinton’s stuff was _technically_ masterful, but as a kid it all struck me as vaguely creepy and unappealing, like some adult’s idea of what kids _should_ like who just didn’t get it. As an adult, I still feel the same way. (That vague creepiness was put to very good use in “Return to Oz,” BTW.) Aardman’s stuff, by comparison, is instantly appealing and cute without being cutesy. Nick Park may not have made the technical innovations Vinton did, but in terms of artistic style, he’s miles ahead. I gotta disagree. I can see how some of his characters would affect people that way, but not everything Vinton studios did was in the same style. Have a look at the short **The Creation** , which is awe-inspiring. His short **Dinosaurs** , is excellent. And “The Diary of Adam and Eve” section in **The Adventures of Mark Twain** brings me to the point of tears. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/17 "2013-12-12T16:22:32Z")
It was a product of its time, one of those things that were great in the late 80’s and early 90’s, and would just be weird to bring back now. Sort of like the Arsenio Hall show. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/18 "2013-12-12T19:14:11Z")
I am drawing a blank on who Speedy is. Can somebody please refresh my memory? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/19 "2013-12-12T19:30:47Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I am drawing a blank on who Speedy is. Can somebody please refresh my memory? **Speedy Alka-Seltzer** , the mascot for Alka-Seltzer. Created in 1951, he has been dimensionally animated on TV since the 1950s, and more recently has been done in CGI. But don’t think Will Vinton studios ever did him: [http://www.bryanfields.com/samples/alka/mem/speedy.html](http://www.bryanfields.com/samples/alka/mem/speedy.html) [https://www.google.com/search?q=speedy+alka+seltzer&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Dw6qUuPOEqfJsQSIzIBg&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=965](https://www.google.com/search?q=speedy+alka+seltzer&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Dw6qUuPOEqfJsQSIzIBg&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=965) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-california-raisins-the-noid-speedy/675932/20 "2013-12-13T02:47:41Z")
Stop-motion animation is probably the dictionary definition of _ **labor intensive!** _ Which for any big production also translates into slow & expensive! Of course computer graphics were (are) expensive too. The tipping point I’d say came with _Jurassic Park_ in the early 90s. They were going to do it all with stop-motion (or actually Lucas’ motion-blur enhanced ‘Go-Motion’) but the CGI people felt they were at a point were they could realistically take over. They made a short demo reel (of the T-rex chasing those gazelle-like dinos) and showed it to Spielberg and he was amazed. He decided right there to go 100% CGI. When Phil Tippet (the stop-motion guy) saw the clip he lamented something like, ‘Guess I’ll have to find a new career!’ He actually wound up working with the CGI people using a mechanical, stop-motion ‘input device’ armature model to help the computer geeks better understand 3D animation. Although the _Wallace & Grommit_ and \*Chickenrun \*guys do fantastic work, their days are numbered. Now 3D computer animation can be ‘dirtied-up’ (less fluid motion, simpler models & background etc.) to look exactly like claymation, and still be faster & cheaper. Kinda sad…