# The Californias: 3, down from 6 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 13, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326 "2018-04-13T01:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/21 "2018-04-13T14:43:39Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I don’t think the State of Jefferson folks would like getting lumped in with San Francisco and Sacto. I always thought Jefferson was the wrong name. Baja Oregon has a nice ring to it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/22 "2018-04-13T14:45:17Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > California really should just disallow ballot initiatives. (You can stop that sentence right there.) The initiative process is pretty fucked up. In my state, we have a guy who keeps getting them on the ballot and when they pass, the court invalidates them because an initiative is supposed to do one thing but he tries to put in the draw on top of a second thing. I could see some sort of two-stage thing that would involve a panel of citizens from the jury pool to review initiatives after the first vote and make the measure workable for the second vote, which would be Yes / Fair, but needs work / No, because we already have a bicameral legislature, so why should initiatives be just one vote? Luckily, our state constitution does not allow initiatives to amend the state constitution. That would be messed up. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/23 "2018-04-13T15:24:40Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Maybe it’s time for a general reordering of state lines nationwide. Why do we need _two_ Dakotas? In case we lose one. You never know when one is going to wander off and join some other country. > [@silenus](#): > > Or _any_ Mississippis! We have Mississippi so Alabama and Arkansas have someone to look down on. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/24 "2018-04-13T22:27:25Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Maybe it’s time for a general reordering of state lines nationwide. Why do we need _two_ Dakotas? As Bill Maher recently said (paraphrasing): There are more people in LA who are named Dakota than there are living in both of the Dakota states! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/25 "2018-04-13T23:33:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I disagree. The only argument that matters is who gets stuck with Bakersfield. Barstow. Barstow is the one I wonder about. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/26 "2018-04-13T23:48:02Z")
“We were somewhere near Barstow…” ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/27 "2018-04-13T23:48:37Z")
As a Southern Californian I would like to say that anyone living north of Disneyland is a Northern Californian. The split should definitely be there, at the Matterhorn. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/28 "2018-04-14T00:01:29Z")
Santa Barbara or thereabouts should be the dividing line. Regardless, this comes up at least once per decade, and it’s always either voted down or it never makes it to the ballot in the first place. Not happenin’. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/29 "2018-04-14T00:10:31Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > “We were somewhere near Barstow…” I saved a man in Barstow just to watch him suffer. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Santa Barbara or thereabouts should be the dividing line. Santa Barbara is just Orange County North Annex. The division between Northern and Southern California staets at Ragged Point and runs WNW through Fresno, which both NoCal and SoCal hate with equal feavor. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/30 "2018-04-14T00:21:33Z")
Nobody mentions Lodi. I mean, there are sadder shitholes in California – I guess. I have not been to one, though. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/31 "2018-04-14T00:26:27Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Santa Barbara is just Orange County North Annex. The division between Northern and Southern California staets at Ragged Point and runs WNW through Fresno, which both NoCal and SoCal hate with equal feavor. > > Stranger That is one of the stupidest fucking things I’ve ever read. Have you ever actually been to Santa Barbara? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/32 "2018-04-14T00:26:34Z")
“Stuck in Lodi again…” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/33 "2018-04-14T00:49:34Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That is one of the stupidest fucking things I’ve ever read. Have you ever actually been to Santa Barbara? Yes, I have. It is full of people who have retired and moved there from Orange County, bringing their political conservatism and contempt for workers and immigrants with them and pushing out the historical beach community denziens to Goleta or Ventura. Have you been there? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/34 "2018-04-14T00:51:21Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Yes, I have. It is full of people who have retired and moved there from Orange County, bringing their political conservatism and contempt for workers and immigrants with them and pushing out the historical beach community denziens to Goleta or Ventura. > > Have you been there? > > Stranger I’ve lived there for 28 years. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/35 "2018-04-14T00:56:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Yes, I have. It is full of people who have retired and moved there from Orange County, bringing their political conservatism and contempt for workers and immigrants with them and pushing out the historical beach community denziens to Goleta or Ventura. > > Have you been there? > > Stranger As a guy who moved from Seattle to Santa Barbara a few years ago and used to travel to Orange County for work, let me counter with this:nuh-uh. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/36 "2018-04-14T01:27:21Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Santa Barbara is just Orange County North Annex. 30 years ago, perhaps. [These days…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Barbara_County,_California#Politics). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/37 "2018-04-14T01:32:34Z")
Santa Barbara was the only county outside of the Bay Area to have a majority vote against Prop 8. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/38 "2018-04-14T04:14:22Z")
In the short story I’m writing, Stranger’s impressions come from visits to his grandparents. They were either part of or pushing out the historic beach denizens – not sure which way to go on that. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/39 "2018-04-14T04:30:18Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > As a guy who moved from Seattle to Santa Barbara a few years ago and used to travel to Orange County for work, let me counter with this:nuh-uh. I gotta’ go with you and **hajario** , though perhaps less pungently than him. Like Orange County, Santa Barbara/Santa Ynez is rich as fuck, but unlike the OC, they’re still lefties. NIMBYism doesn’t necessarily mean right-wing leanings. After all, an environmentalist is someone who already has a redwood deck… Then again, it’s been 15-20 years since I’ve lived in CA. Doubt the conservative leanings have increased though in that time. No CA split plan is going to work with a giant urban center going with each piece. Maybe, (LOL) Jefferson without Sacramento would fly? Maybe. But three states from one; each with a liberal majority, which would mean four new Dem (or Green) senators? Yeah, not happening. Be satisfied with President Harris in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326/40 "2018-04-14T04:38:45Z")
As to probably the most equitable split? I visualize a split into two. The northern boundary is the Mendocino/Sonoma line, going east to Napa, Yolo, Sacramento, coming west to Solano, Contra Costa, Alameda, Santa Clara, and basically following the Diablo/Inner Coast Range south. Give the Valley to the rednecks, and the Coast to the left. It stops at LA County. Orange County, Riverside, and San Bernardino go to the 'necks. Were it not for the naval bases and breweries, I’d say cede SD and Imperial back to Mexico. But something like that. A wealthy coastal enclave, and then the rest of California with the miserable (comparatively) weather. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-californias-3-down-from-6/812326.md?page=3)