# The Canadian Election Thread. (Or maybe not...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419 "2011-03-21T00:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/761 "2011-04-30T02:58:42Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’d agree with that, just as I’d agree that new suitable replacements are required for the aging infrastucture of roads, electricity, sewer, water, etc. I’d merely ask, where is it said that the new prisons are replacements and not additions? There was a funny segment about elections and politics on CBC - let it burn in righteous fire of non-funding - where reporter went to Vaughan, Ontario, the electorate of the former Toronto Police Chief, Jualian “I catch criminals with my bare hands” Fantino. Now, his slogan and primary banner under which he is seeking to become MP is to, yes, “fight the crime”. So, reporter went around asking people if they are aware that in Vaughan there is no crime to speak of. People would look at him somewhat phased with crime stats in Vaughan but they would still mainatan that Fantino’s message is spot on - kinda like “you can never take a rest fighting crime”. It was surreal. On another note, Fox News North a.k.a. Sun TV had a breaking news that in 1996 Jack Layton was bad, bad bad, bad… the decency has left the building. I want to meet a person who will change their vote based on this kind of propaganda and scare mongering. I always thought that’s for Americans, let them have it, but, no, it appears that gullibility is the decease of the 21st century. And it’s spreading …☹ ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/762 "2011-04-30T03:01:19Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’d agree with that, just as I’d agree that new suitable replacements are required for the aging infrastucture of roads, electricity, sewer, water, etc. I’d merely ask, where is it said that the new prisons are replacements and not additions? Yeah? So what if they are? The police, the courts, the judges decide who gets incarcerated, not the Prime Minister’s office. This government is forward-thinking and saying that as the population of the country increases, we should start planning for an increased number of prison spaces. If the same fucking argument was made for hospitals or schools (which happens daily) then no one would flinch. What makes increasing prison space relative to increased population projections such a taboo subject? Oh, crime is decreasing… Fuck off. The population of Canada is increasing and if we don’y RIGHT NOW plan for the future then we’ll have more prisoners than prison space very shortly. How can you deny that these demographics are upon us? How? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/763 "2011-04-30T03:01:23Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The initial point was made when you pretty much stated that anyone who did not agree to the CPC platforms was stupid and gullible. I did not say or even imply anything of the sort. That is a ridiculous accusation and I ask that you retract it at once. Where on earth did you get this from? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/764 "2011-04-30T03:07:40Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > As you are almost certainly aware, Harper has passed or is passing legislation that will **increase the prison population out of proportion with the population growth**. Give me a cite for this please. ETA: Now! ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/765 "2011-04-30T03:09:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > ETA: Now! Um. No. Internet tough guys bore me. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/766 "2011-04-30T03:12:03Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Oh, crime is decreasing… Fuck off. I note that as the election draws nearer, one Canadian conservative in particular is losing his cool. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/767 "2011-04-30T03:14:12Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > Um. No. Internet tough guys bore me. In other words, unsubstantiated bullshit allegations. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/768 "2011-04-30T03:19:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I did not say or even imply anything of the sort. That is a ridiculous accusation and I ask that you retract it at once. Where on earth did you get this from? **Euphonious Polemic** , “stupid and gullible” came from a post of yours to **Leaffan** , which he agreed with. **RickJay** , despite his obvious distaste for the Liberals and NDP, has never said or implied such. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/769 "2011-04-30T03:19:51Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yeah? So what if they are? The police, the courts, the judges decide who gets incarcerated, not the Prime Minister’s office. Um, yes. No one has disputed that. However, the legislator writes the laws, including those things that are felonies, and the sentencing guidelines. To quote the National Post (that’s a iittle to the left of the Sun; will that be an okay cite) “Ottawa is scrambling to expand the penitentiary system as quickly as possible to house a surging inmate population. One legislative change alone — the abolishment of the two-for-one pre-trial custody credit — is expected to add 4,000 more inmates to the system over the next five years, according to estimates by the Parliamentary Budget Officer.” ( link: [http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/Harper+government+announce+more+prison+expansions/4083169/story.html](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/Harper+government+announce+more+prison+expansions/4083169/story.html) ). Sure, 400 people a year isn’t a lot, even at 35 grand a pop, but it isn’t “so fucking what” territory. > [@](#): > > This government is forward-thinking and saying that as the population of the country increases, we should start planning for an increased number of prison spaces. > [@](#): > > If the same fucking argument was made for hospitals or schools (which happens daily) then no one would flinch. What makes increasing prison space relative to increased population projections such a taboo subject? You are correct. Well, sort of. We’re closing schools here in Toronto. People would flinch if we tried to open more. But your general point is true. Prisons are not schools. Well, except for "how to commit more crime. > [@](#): > > Oh, crime is decreasing… Fuck off. You should probably consider going outside and enjoying the night air. Seriously. Yes, crime is at it’s lowest in 30 years, and dropping. That means we need fewer, not more prisons. > [@](#): > > The population of Canada is increasing and if we don’y RIGHT NOW plan for the future then we’ll have more prisoners than prison space very shortly. How can you deny that these demographics are upon us? How? Crime is dropping faster than population is increasing. How can you deny that? ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/770 "2011-04-30T03:21:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > In other words, unsubstantiated bullshit allegations. I refused to provide a cite “Now!”. You continue the internet tough guy thing. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/771 "2011-04-30T03:23:36Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > Crime is dropping faster than population is increasing. How can you deny that? Show me the money. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/772 "2011-04-30T03:25:36Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Show me the money. Since I’m not the one trying to spend billions to build more prisons, how about you show me a cite? Specifically, that without Harper’s changes to the federal crime code (that’s written by the legislator - glad we cleared that up), prison populations would climb. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/773 "2011-04-30T03:26:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I note that as the election draws nearer, one Canadian conservative in particular is losing his cool. Dude, check out the name. He’s been in a bad mood since 1967 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/774 "2011-04-30T03:32:54Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > Since I’m not the one trying to spend billions to build more prisons, how about you show me a cite? > > Specifically, that without Harper’s changes to the federal crime code (that’s written by the legislator - glad we cleared that up), prison populations would climb. That’s not how it works. You said “Crime is dropping faster than population is increasing. How can you deny that?” I asked you to provide a cite regarding this knowledge. If you can’t substantiate it then retract it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/775 "2011-04-30T03:36:33Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I asked you to provide a cite regarding this knowledge. If you can’t substantiate it then retract it. Look, dude. You’re the one who believes it necessary to spend the money on more prison spaces. Justify it. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/776 "2011-04-30T03:37:24Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That’s not how it works. You said “Crime is dropping faster than population is increasing. How can you deny that?” > > I asked you to provide a cite regarding this knowledge. If you can’t substantiate it then retract it. And you said: > [@](#): > > The population of Canada is increasing and if we don’y RIGHT NOW plan for the future then we’ll have more prisoners than prison space very shortly. How can you deny that these demographics are upon us? How? Provide a cite or retract it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/777 "2011-04-30T03:38:34Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Look, dude. You’re the one who believes it necessary to spend the money on more prison spaces. Justify it. Well, from the above linked article of **bashere** : > [@](#): > > There are roughly 13,500 inmates in 54 institutions. In many prisons, inmates are already double bunked, living two to a cell designed for one. The practice contravenes international standards on the treatment of prisoners and is known to fuel tension and violence. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/778 "2011-04-30T03:43:53Z")
Suddenly I hear crickets chirping. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/779 "2011-04-30T03:46:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Suddenly I hear crickets chirping. Actually, that’s the sound of me doing dishes. crime rate, Canada, 2008 > **[The Daily, Thursday, July 17, 2008. Crime statistics](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/080717/dq080717b-eng.htm)** A 7% drop. Why don’t you show me the population increase so I can get the rest of my dishes done? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/780 "2011-04-30T03:49:24Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Suddenly I hear crickets chirping. Gosh, a whole five minutes while I was off reviewing the “Game of Thrones” thread? So sorry. I shall from now on offer you my undivided attention. Or not. Look, making room for the prisoners already in jail is one thing. I’ve clearly stated that I agree with that. Your argument is that Canada needs to make room for many more anticipated prisoners. Planning for the future, right? Why do you anticipate many more prisoners? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419.md?page=40)