# The Canadian Election Thread. (Or maybe not...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419 "2011-03-21T00:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/61 "2011-03-26T00:44:28Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I was listening to a local radio station. Its hourly news had two items, before moving on to sports. The first item was that there is going to be an election, probably in May. The second was that there will be a lot of army worms in a couple of years. > > All in all, a slow news day, despite the fall of the government. I just about fell off my chair laughing at this one. Ever listened on a day that “the snow is melting” is the top story? CBC or CDs. No other choice. But about the election, I am of two minds. Either hide under the covers until May, or I get insanely political, and actually volunteer for a candidate and stuff. I really don’t want this election, but since I despise Harper and the American flavour of politics and attack adds that have come around, I won’t sit on the fence for long. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/62 "2011-03-26T01:08:34Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Good lord, **Leaffan**. If Stephen Harper shutting down Parliament at his whim doesn’t get Canadians taking to the streets, I can assure you that a coalition government certainly wouldn’t. “Shutting down Parliament at his whim?” What planet have you been on? He prorogued parliament in order to stave off an unprecedented coalition involving the Bloc separatist party. A coalition that stated he wasn’t spending enough to address the global financial crisis. And then when he resumed parliament with a new budget (which was supported by the House) he was lambasted for going into deficit spending. And now we’re being subject to another possible coalition: unless the Conservatives get a majority. And it appears they may. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/63 "2011-03-26T01:14:06Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I don’t know where you are getting your figures. [Ekos](http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/03/25/pol-poll.html) places the Conservative lead at 35.3 %, 7.2% ahead of the Liberals who are at 28.1%. > > I have no current numbers for Prime Minister Harper’s approval rating. I will believe 80% when I see it in the paper. [Here you go.](http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5174) > [@](#): > > Conservatives (43%) Spike into Majority Zone as Grits (24%) Tumble and Trail by Almost 20 Points with Finger on Election Trigger, Pending Election is Conservatives to Lose > > Thursday, March 24, 2011 Either way, it still points to a Conservative win. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/64 "2011-03-26T01:23:28Z")
Or [here](http://www.cfra.com/?cat=1&nid=78635): > [@](#): > > A poll released by Ipsos Reid shows the Conservatives kick off the campaign with the support of 42 per cent of respondents, compared with 24 per cent for the Liberals and 16 per cent for the NDP. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/65 "2011-03-26T01:25:16Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > “Shutting down Parliament at his whim?” > > What planet have you been on? The planet where Stephen Harper shut down Parliament **twice** when it proved inconvenient.. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/66 "2011-03-26T01:26:50Z")
And [more](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110320/conservatives-liberals-latest-poll-110320/): > [@](#): > > Results from those three questions are compiled for the Leadership Score Index. It has Harper again in the lead – but down 16 points: > > ``` > * Stephen Harper, Conservative: 82.8 (-16.1) > * Jack Layton, NDP: 51.4 (+7.8) > * Michael Ignatieff, Liberal: 39.7 (+2.8) > * Gilles Duceppe, Bloc: 21.5 (+3.8) > * Elizabeth May, Green: 11.6 (-1.1) > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/67 "2011-03-26T01:28:53Z")
[Decima-Harris](http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/support-near-same-levels-as-last-election-the-canadian-press-harris-decima-poll-118398309.html) has lower numbers than Ipsos, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/68 "2011-03-26T01:28:57Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > The planet where Stephen Harper shut down Parliament **twice** when it proved inconvenient.. He prorogued parliament in order to stave off an unprecedented coalition involving the Bloc separatist party. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/69 "2011-03-26T01:30:11Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > [Decima-Harris](http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/support-near-same-levels-as-last-election-the-canadian-press-harris-decima-poll-118398309.html) has lower numbers than Ipsos, as well. Which still points to a Conservative minority. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/70 "2011-03-26T01:32:56Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > He prorogued parliament in order to stave off an unprecedented coalition involving the Bloc separatist party. … [And then he did it again, one year later, because he didn’t want to answer to the House.](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/12/30/parliament-prorogation-harper.html) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/71 "2011-03-26T01:37:32Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > … > > [And then he did it again, one year later, because he didn’t want to answer to the House.](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/12/30/parliament-prorogation-harper.html) You do realize this is legal and constitutional and performed 105 times in the past right? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/72 "2011-03-26T01:59:47Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Which still points to a Conservative minority. Yes, at the moment. As we find out more about [Afghan detainees](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/960406--afghan-documents-kept-from-public-could-come-out-mp-says), [Bruce Carson](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/956714--former-pmo-aide-accused-of-lobbying-had-four-meetings-with-feds) and as the [budget catches up](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadians-dont-share-harpers-zest-for-fighter-jets-debt-reduction-poll-shows/article1950801/), those Conservative numbers may continue to go down. I’m just pointing out that there is an 8 percentage point difference between polls of different sources. The first proroguation was such an unprecedented move, it took almost a week of meetings with constitutional experts to determine what the proper course of action was. And the way that Conservatives go on about the Bloc, you’d think that the Bloc and Conservative parties have never supported one another, except that they did. Frequently. The second proroguation was when we took to the streets in the tens of thousands and were ignored completely by the Conservative party. All this touches on one of my strongest objections to the Conservative Party under the leadership of Prime Minister Stephen Harper - the hypocrisy of promising open transparent government and shutting down the press, the promise of Senate reform which results in stacking the Senate with party hacks and killing legislation approved by the elected house without a word of debate, the [parliamentary obstructionism](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20070518/tories_parliament_070518/) followed by John Baird crying to the referee that the parliamentary committee was stacked against the Tories, the attack ads with out of context remarks and half-truths worthy of FOX news… You may not share my sense of outrage at this, but when the man who promised an end to Realpolitik turns to Realpolitik faster than you can say “Animal Farm”, I don’t understand how it can be ignored, defended or supported. * * * If I may, I’d just like to once again express the hope that we can keep this respectful. Everyone here is an intelligent person with his or her own point of view, and a clear passion for this country. As I slowly come to meet more of the Canadopers in person, I’m made aware that politics is just one aspect of this community and the strange, long distance friendship that it affords. Leaffan and I are a prime example - I doubt that we will ever agree on anything, politically. For all that, he is a good man, his heart is in the right place and I would happily shovel his driveway in a snow storm, buy him a beer and/or clean out his basement when asked. Now that that ‘Barney the Dinosaur’ moment is out of the way, back to politics. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/73 "2011-03-26T02:01:10Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > You do realize this is legal and constitutional and performed 105 times in the past right? It’s a total abuse of the PM’s constitutional power. Before the Harper Government® parliamentary sessions operated on a more-or-less fixed schedule. Prorogation was a formality when the scheduled session. But Stephen Harper, who seems to have trouble following his own schedules, has made it into a weapon with which he can muzzle Parliament, and our democracy is much poorer for it. What you seem to not understand is that the Westminster system of government has a lot more to it than the formal constitutional rules. Under a strict reading of our constitution the Queen is a dictator with extremely broad powers. This isn’t reality because of established constitutional convention. Just because something is legal under the Constitution doesn’t make it right. "The Harper Government"® is a registered trademark of the Government of Canada. All other marks are the property of their respective owners. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/74 "2011-03-26T02:13:15Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > It’s a total abuse of the PM’s constitutional power. Before the Harper Government® parliamentary sessions operated on a more-or-less fixed schedule. Prorogation was a formality when the scheduled session. But Stephen Harper, who seems to have trouble following his own schedules, has made it into a weapon with which he can muzzle Parliament, and our democracy is much poorer for it. > > What you seem to not understand is that the Westminster system of government has a lot more to it than the formal constitutional rules. Under a strict reading of our constitution the Queen is a dictator with extremely broad powers. This isn’t reality because of established constitutional convention. Just because something is legal under the Constitution doesn’t make it right. > > "The Harper Government"® is a registered trademark of the Government of Canada. All other marks are the property of their respective owners. I respectfully disagree. I believe the minority government was acting in the best interests of the country. There was no other choice. We had just gone through an election, didn’t need another one, and sure as hell didn’t need a coalition government. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/75 "2011-03-26T02:17:27Z")
> [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](#): > > I just about fell off my chair laughing at this one. Ever listened on a day that “the snow is melting” is the top story? > > CBC or CDs. No other choice.g. Jeff Walters (Hi Jeff!) has been a with the ski patrol for far more years than he has been behind the microphone at the CBC. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/76 "2011-03-26T02:18:11Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I respectfully disagree. I believe the minority government was acting in the best interests of the country. There was no other choice. We had just gone through an election, didn’t need another one, and sure as hell didn’t need a coalition government. And what’s the excuse for proroguing Parliament last year? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/77 "2011-03-26T02:18:53Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Yes, at the moment. As we find out more about [Afghan detainees](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/960406--afghan-documents-kept-from-public-could-come-out-mp-says), [Bruce Carson](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/956714--former-pmo-aide-accused-of-lobbying-had-four-meetings-with-feds) and as the [budget catches up](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadians-dont-share-harpers-zest-for-fighter-jets-debt-reduction-poll-shows/article1950801/), those Conservative numbers may continue to go down. I’m just pointing out that there is an 8 percentage point difference between polls of different sources… I’m sorry, but quoting the Toronto Star as an impartial media source is just silly. How about this [Liberal Senator](http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110311/senator-lavigne-fraud-110311/)? > [@](#): > > A Liberal senator accused of misusing public funds and instructing a Senate staffer to cut down trees at his cottage has been found guilty of fraud and breach of trust. > > The charges come more than three years after Raymond Lavigne was officially barred from the Upper House. > > Lavigne, a Quebec senator appointed in 2002, was initially suspended from the Red Chamber after being charged with obstruction of justice, fraud and breach of trust ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/78 "2011-03-26T02:22:21Z")
I say we all change our stripes and vote NDP! I personally hate Mr Harper and his cronies, but am willing to admit we were lucky to have a fiscal conservative at the helm through a world wide financial crises. That said, I refuse to vote for the dude. And the Liberals just suck it. They deserve to lose and get shellacked, in my opinion. They keep foisting leaders upon us, one after another, not a leadership skill among them! They are hopelessly lost and disconnected from their constituency. Now I feel there is little difference between the two quite honestly. They are lying weasels who will say anything to get power. There is no reform in them, they sold their souls long ago. I think people are woefully tired of a bad choice, election after election. I’m not sure the NDP would make good government, but hey, they could hardly be worse. And I think what western society needs the most is protection from predatory capitalists. The Libs and Conserv’s cannot possibly deliver. And under their watch Canadian’s have been served up to be exploited, badly, often, and repeatedly. I think the NDP might be just the thing. Plus, and I love this so, so much, Jack has been saying we need to lose the Senate. A man after my own heart. They do nothing, it’s just a cushy, well paid job for the well connected once set out to pasture. Killing time till they can collect their ginormously generous pensions. It costs something like $360 billion to have a stupid ‘do nothing’ senate. I say lose them, the sooner the better. Even if I end up changing my mind, come election day. I am telling everyone that I’m tired of these two bullshit parties and the same stupid bad choice election after election, so I’m voting NPD! The Libs and Conservs can ‘suck it!’. And I’m encouraging everyone I know to participate in the same sport. I say shake it up, it can’t get worse. I’d love to see the polls reflect that everyone is so cheesed they are switching their allegiance out of sheer spite. It’s either that or start a movement to demand they go back to counting and reporting the spoiled ballots, like they used to. Then motivate everyone who’s pissed about the proroguing of parliament, or the scandals, or just pissed to be having another election for no real change, to destroy their ballots. Yeah, I’m a little bitter, it’s true. I think the average Canadian is too! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/79 "2011-03-26T02:25:56Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > You do realize this is legal and constitutional and performed 105 times in the past right? And you do realize that this was already covered at post 27 – namely that Harper misused the procedure by using it to dodge a non-confidence motion, rather than to give Parliament a break between legislative progammes, right? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/80 "2011-03-26T02:30:46Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > And what’s the excuse for proroguing Parliament last year? National security by the looks of things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419.md?page=5)