# The Canadian Election Thread. (Or maybe not...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419 "2011-03-21T00:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/781 "2011-04-30T03:54:02Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > Actually, that’s the sound of me doing dishes. > > crime rate, Canada, 2008 > > [The Daily, Thursday, July 17, 2008. Crime statistics](http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/080717/dq080717b-eng.htm) > > A 7% drop. Why don’t you show me the population increase so I can get the rest of my dishes done? No. How about you think about it, do the math and get back to me tomorrow. You made the accusation that: > [@](#): > > As you are almost certainly aware, Harper has passed or is passing legislation that will increase the prison population out of proportion with the population growth. It’s up to you to prove that: not me. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/782 "2011-04-30T03:58:59Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > No. > > How about you think about it, do the math and get back to me tomorrow. You made the accusation that: > It’s up to you to prove that: not me. The quote that I cited says that the changes in two-for-one legislation adds 4,000 people over 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/783 "2011-04-30T04:01:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > It’s up to you to prove that: not me. You’re no longer worth attempting to carry on a reasonable discussion with. You are refusing to justify your stance; you make no arguments for it, and are demanding that we argue against reasons you’ve got buried in a jar in your back yard. **bashere** may find this more interesting than doing the dishes; I do not find it more interesting than . . . well, almost anything. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/784 "2011-04-30T04:03:53Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > **bashere** may find this more interesting than doing the dishes; I do not find it more interesting than . . . well, almost anything. Thank you, **Frank**. Your point is well made. While not directed at me, reviewing my responses, I am clearly being a jerk, and will bow out of this thread. Leaffan, vote as you will. Please understand that many people disagree, not out of ignorance, but due to different priorities. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/785 "2011-04-30T05:11:19Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > No. > > How about you think about it, do the math and get back to me tomorrow. You made the accusation that: > It’s up to you to prove that: not me. Increasing the prison population by 4,000 over 5 years just by cancelling 2-for-1 rules would by itself increase the prison population as fast as population growth in percentage terms. When one then accounts for the fact that the Tory platform calls for tougher approaches to crime and sentencing across a variety of areas, it’s kind of hard to come up with a logical reason why the prison population WOULDN’T go up, unless you can explain some hidden part of the Tory agenda that would reduce inmates in some other way…like, say, a saner approach to drugs, but the Tories don’t want that. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/786 "2011-04-30T09:56:20Z")
Off on a tangent here, but I and many in my riding are thoroughly disgusted with our local Conservative. I’ve posted previously about how he won’t attend local all-candidates forums. Seems it’s been ramped up a notch. Local citizen Rod Leland tried to get Jim Hillyer, the CPC candidate in our riding, on camera to answer a few questions. Hillyer didn’t like this. > [@](#): > > “It’s a typical media stunt. [Leland] is part of a group of NDP-supporting students that … have been trying to embarrass Jim and bring attention to their issues,” said [Ethan Gorner, Hillyer’s campaign manager]. Um … aren’t the issues what a candidate should address? Let’s see … we have a candidate who won’t address the issues in an all-candidates forum, who won’t address the issues on the street; and who, if this is any indication, won’t address issues anywhere. Who knows what he might _not_ do in Parliament? See [what the CBC had to say about Hillyer](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2011/04/29/calgary-lethbridge-jim-hillyer-youtube.html). Sorry, Jim. You’ve lost my vote. You’ll probably win anyway, since, as a Mormon, you have the local Mormon vote, and you’ll have the votes of the crusty farmers who’ve voted Conservative for fifty-plus years because their Daddy told them to. But when I need to write my MP, I expect you to listen to me, regardless of which church I attend (or not), or whether I’m urban or rural. Jim Hillyer, you’re Pit-worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/787 "2011-04-30T14:21:10Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > Don’t tell me, I know this one. Harper being asked his sixth question of the day? Just an FYI. Layton has been limiting the amount of questions as well recently. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/788 "2011-04-30T14:34:45Z")
Here is the [YouTube link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRqw0xUal4k)to the press conference where Stockwell Day announced the federal funding for new prisons. Now, if the new prisons were intended to replace the old ones, this would have been an ideal time to have said so. Instead, we got into this strange discussion of ‘unreported crime’ as a justification for building new, larger prisons. Here is a [link](http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/100720/dq100720a-eng.htm) to the Statistics Canada release showing that crime, including violent crime is down from a peak 2003 and has been trending downward ever since. And here is a [link](http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=35) to an article from Human Resources Canada about population growth rate. > [@](#): > > The rate of growth in Canada has declined in recent years. Canada’s average annual growth rate from 2000 to 2010 was 1.1%. The growth rate is expected to slow even further over the next several decades (0.9% between 2010 and 2060). I can’t comment on any of **bashere** ’s assertions concerning the government increasing the prison population over the last five years. I can only comment that as the youngest of the baby boomer generation are turning 65, seniors homes, palliative care and hospitals would seem to be a better investment than multi-million dollar prisons at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/789 "2011-04-30T15:51:01Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > **Euphonious Polemic** , “stupid and gullible” came from a post of yours to **Leaffan** , which he agreed with. **RickJay** , despite his obvious distaste for the Liberals and NDP, has never said or implied such. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry **Rickjay**. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/790 "2011-04-30T15:59:41Z")
Merciful mother of God. The Toronto Star, for longer than my lifetime the Official Liberal Party Newspaper, has endorsed the NDP. I am honestly shocked by this. The Star is the most blatantly politically biased major newspaper in Canada; their Liberal Party support is evident not just in editorials but in their choices of story, in the pictures they run, in the way every article is written, and many of their articles and columns approach Fox News levels of spin. It’s almost as if the paper was actually run by senior Liberals. The Star ALWAYS endorses the Liberals at the federal level; they even endorsed John Turner in 1984 when Turner was probably having trouble getting his family to vote for him. For the Star to endorse the NDP is a devastating repudiation of the Liberal Party. It is equivalent to a top-five Liberal cabinet minister abandoning the party right now and endorsing another party. And it’s a huge, huge coup for the NDP. The Star is THE vehicle for printed news in Toronto. This actually could swing a few ridings. The Liberal rank and file needs to rise up and throw out everyone at the top of the party. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/791 "2011-04-30T16:06:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I am honestly shocked by this. The Star is the most blatantly politically biased major newspaper in Canada; I take it that you don’t read the National Post? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/792 "2011-04-30T16:25:45Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I take it that you don’t read the National Post? 😉 Sure I do. They aren’t even close. The Post is heavily small-C conservative and they’re open and forthright about that fact, but maintains a level of basic honesty most of the time - not always, but usually - and they’re happy to rip the CPC on any number of issues. On the bias scale I’d put them way ahead of the Globe and Mail, but not _nearly_ as far as the Toronto Star. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/793 "2011-04-30T16:37:59Z")
I was intrigued by the number of articles in the Globe and Mail that were critical of the Conservatives this election. What’s up? They’re not going to support the Torys? Then they came out with the editorial endorsing the Conservatives on Thursday. So despite all the questions that they themselves have raised, they can’t change their stripes. Oh, well… I was quite heartened, by the way, to read this article in yesterday’s Star, about the race in Mississauga-Brampton South and how the Conservative and Liberal candidates have actually been respectful to one another. It’s good to see that _some_ candidates get the notion that you should attack the idea and not the person. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/794 "2011-04-30T17:14:10Z")
I am politically left of centre, but I also remember the 1990s in Ontario. but even I am shocked by events of recent days. The Toronto Star endorsing NDP is like the Pope endorsing Lutheranism\* \*Not exactly I know, and please no one come along and give me a history of the Reformation etc and point how NDP was not a reaction to excesses of Liberalism and I am perfectly aware of the CCP and Tommy Douglas etc. Still shocking. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/795 "2011-04-30T17:29:01Z")
So, Prime Minister Jack Layton, eh? I’m going to need a minute here… ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/796 "2011-04-30T17:57:09Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I can’t comment on any of **bashere** ’s assertions concerning the government increasing the prison population over the last five years. My understanding is that the prison population is expected to raise over the next five, not over the last five. At least that’s my reading of my National Post cite. Thank you, though; the rest of your quotes are in line with what I’ve read. [QUOTE=Ibanez] Just an FYI. Layton has been limiting the amount of questions as well recently. [/QUOTE] That’s vexatious. And surprising. Thank you for letting me know. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/797 "2011-04-30T19:38:34Z")
> [@bashere](#): > > My understanding is that the prison population is expected to raise over the next five, not over the last five. At least that’s my reading of my National Post cite. Thank you, though; the rest of your quotes are in line with what I’ve read. > > That’s vexatious. And surprising. Thank you for letting me know. It strikes me as being a perfectly reasonable response to the demands of the media. There is a limit, after all, as to how much time a party leader can spend in any given day answering questions; he’s got stuff to do. With the NDP being a much more serious player now than they were four weeks ago, the number of questions will increase. So it seems to me you HAVE to limit the media’s questioning, don’t you? How could you not? There’s only 24 hours in a day. 1. It’s logistically impossible for Layton to answer every question the media would throw at him, and so it’s fairer to explain the limits ahead of time rather than just cut them off and run away when he has to get somewhere, and 2. Letting the media know ahead of time that the questions are limited might increase the quality of questions; if they know they’re limited, they might not waste his time with stupidities and redundant questions. The Conservatives went WAY too far early on (they relented later) but in theory limiting questioning is perfectly reasonable and every important politician does it. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/798 "2011-04-30T22:45:19Z")
I live in John Baird’s riding, and all his signs have a little addendum flag at the top that says “voted best MP of all parties” or something like that…😕 Is there a story behind that? Best MP at what? Voted by who? I thought he was supposed to be a jerky jerk bully that everyone hated, but apparently not! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/799 "2011-04-30T23:09:22Z")
MacLean’s based on IPSOS/Ried’s asking MPs to vote on each other: [http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2010/02/c9104.html](http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2010/02/c9104.html) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419/800 "2011-05-01T00:35:26Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > So, Prime Minister Jack Layton, eh? I’m going to need a minute here… Be bold. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadian-election-thread-or-maybe-not/575419.md?page=41)