# The Canadope Café, 2014 Edition: In 3-D! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612 "2014-01-01T05:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/301 "2014-02-06T02:39:30Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > It was a little shocking to read the news item on this earlier today–they were a place that seemed to be in the “too big to fail” category. Is ‘too big to fail’ from your perspective as a lawyer in the industry? Are clients affected much by a company’s breakup? It can’t be because 500 people are out of work, because it looks like most lawyers have been jumping ship for other jobs, and others are looking to merge with other firms, so not the full 500 would be unemployed. Even so, 500 isn’t much of a blip on the unemployment radar. Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/302 "2014-02-06T03:07:32Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Is ‘too big to fail’ from your perspective as a lawyer in the industry? Are clients affected much by a company’s breakup? It can’t be because 500 people are out of work, because it looks like most lawyers have been jumping ship for other jobs, and others are looking to merge with other firms, so not the full 500 would be unemployed. Even so, 500 isn’t much of a blip on the unemployment radar. Just wondering. To answer your first question, yes. HB is (was?) one of the big players. For the most part, they didn’t tend to do your house purchase, or take your instructions on a will, or incorporate your small business (though they certainly could, and you’d pay dearly for the privilege); they mainly represented big organizations, big corporations, and big clients; all of whom paid big bucks for HB’s representation. To answer your second question, no. Clients would remain represented somehow–the departing lawyers might take their files with them (I did that when I left one firm), or if that is not possible due to a conflict of interest, HB might ask other neutral firms to take the files. The clients won’t move forward unrepresented, though their matters might be delayed until new representation is found. It’s not the resulting unemployment that is the problem here (though it certainly is a problem to those affected). It’s the fact that one of the big players in its field has failed; on par with the TD Bank failing, or Manulife, or the Hudson’s Bay Company. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/303 "2014-02-06T03:35:17Z")
Meh. Their lawyers are skilled, and there is a demand in Canada for skilled lawyers. It’s not like the USA was a couple of years ago. More just a matter of the firm being squeezed by the “seven sisters” big boys in Toronto at one end, and the cost effective, razor sharp “boutique” firms at the other. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/304 "2014-02-06T03:56:11Z")
Here’s an interesting take on it in the Financial Post, arguing an over-reliance on big political names, who didn’t really serve to bring in long-term business. > **[Heenan Blaikie's stable of politically connected ‘rainmakers’ not enough to...](https://financialpost.com/legal-post/heenan-blaikies-stable-of-politically-connected-rainmakers-not-enough-to-stem-troubled-law-firms-collapse)** > > Not all rainmakers are equal — and the kind this blue-blooded firm boasts may bring in fees but not necessarily the kind upon which enduring law firms are built And an interesting quote: > [@](#): > > “Cultural cohesion is more important than profits,” said a veteran partner at a major law firm. “Culture gives a firm strength and longevity.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/305 "2014-02-06T04:01:16Z")
I’ve got a friend in the Vancouver office, and another at the Québec office. Hope they come out of it alright. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/306 "2014-02-06T05:09:24Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Meh. That was my initial thought. I was interested in how it was too big to fail. I can see it for GM (kind of), but a company of less that 500? Sorry, **Spoons** , but I have to go with **Muffin** on this one. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/307 "2014-02-06T05:14:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve got a friend in the Vancouver office, and another at the Québec office. Hope they come out of it alright. I originally found out because one of my law school buddies was supposed to article at HB Vancouver This summer, only to find out today that he’s back to square one. At least I’ve been pounding the pavement and working on my CV. Guys like him thought they had their future signed sealed and delivered. I don’t feel sad for him as such, but it sure is a kick in the teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/308 "2014-02-06T05:31:26Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That was my initial thought. I was interested in how it was too big to fail. I can see it for GM (kind of), but a company of less that 500? > Sorry, **Spoons** , but I have to go with **Muffin** on this one. Meh. Well, meh indeed. It’s not like the provision of legal services in Canada will grind to a halt, or be restricted; on that we can agree. And I agree with **Muffin** that there may have been a pull from Toronto, whether boutique or Bay Street. But I also think that **Northern Piper** makes a great point: there was an over-reliance on big political names. Sure, you can have such past politicians as Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chretien as partners, and they’d look great on a letterhead; but if they’re not practicing law daily, thus producing income, they’re dead weight. The occasional speech at a university or charity fundraiser doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/309 "2014-02-06T07:21:14Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Sure, you can have such past politicians as Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chretien as partners, and they’d look great on a letterhead; but if they’re not practicing law daily, thus producing income, **they’re dead weight**. Heh, the country had to endure these boat anchors for years, I’m not feeling much sympathy for a bunch of lawyers!😛 Letterhead - must have at least generated a laugh or two: Pierre ‘The Finger’ Trudeau Jean ‘The Strangler’ Chretien ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/310 "2014-02-06T10:19:46Z")
When spread over the entire firm, I doubt if the cost of the dead weight was that much. What was more telling was the focus of the firm, which did not have its strong suit in long term corporate-commercial heavy hitters. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/311 "2014-02-06T17:04:06Z")
And, law firms by their nature are much more fragile institutions than a bank or a manufacturing company. Their assets are people: their lawyers and their clients. Either one can walk out the door on a moment’s notice, with serious financial implications. So I’m not sure any law firm is too big to fail. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/312 "2014-02-06T19:00:48Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And, law firms by their nature are much more fragile institutions than a bank or a manufacturing company. Their assets are people: their lawyers and their clients. Either one can walk out the door on a moment’s notice, with serious financial implications. So I’m not sure any law firm is too big to fail. I generally agree with your point, but what about those mega firms invading from Britain, like Denton’s and Norton Rose? I heard they farm out a ton of their grunt work to low paid lawyers in India; surely THAT kind of personnel is replaceable, even if they’re still at the mercy of their client list. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/313 "2014-02-07T00:43:52Z")
Sure, but those farm-outs aren’t part of the firm. If a significant number of partners walk from a big firm, it could have immediate reprucusions. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/314 "2014-02-07T02:59:48Z")
Do you guys want to get a room? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/315 "2014-02-07T03:25:51Z")
That’s the Bill Clinton / Elizabeth Hurley thread. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/316 "2014-02-07T05:03:01Z")
In other news, [Alberta premier Alison Redford takes $45,000 trip to South Africa for Mandela’s funeral.](http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/02/05/alberta-premier-redford-responds-to-criticism-over-cost-of-flight-to-south-africa) She claims that if she had known how much it would cost, she wouldn’t have gone. Mm-hmm. How do you even get two flights and a couple of day’s stay up to $45,000? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/317 "2014-02-07T05:39:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > How do you even get two flights and a couple of day’s stay up to $45,000? SA is essentially on the other side of the planet. Even economy tickets aren’t cheap. The premier isn’t flying economy. It wouldn’t be surprising if the tickets alone amounted to $20K. That being said, why does a premier have to go to this sort of thing at all. Don’t we have representatives at the national level to pay our respects. Can’t she just send a telegram? eg. “Sorry for your loss. Here are a couple of discount passes to the Stampede, etc.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/318 "2014-02-07T16:41:32Z")
Not to seem overly apologetic of politicians, but it surely is a great idea to attend an event such as Mandela’s funeral. Especially for a politician who represents the interest of a region with a worldwide sought-after commodity. I’m sure the Alberta Premier was hoping to do some serious schmoozing, so it’s really a business trip. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/319 "2014-02-07T17:04:51Z")
# Provincial plane to Ottawa - $14,992 Free ride with the PM to SA Assistant’s ticket to SA - $10,000 Return air fair for Premier- $10,000 Return air fair for assistant - $10,000 $44,992 Decision to go made at last minute and not able to free-be it back with the PM due to swearing-in of her new cabinet. I’m not feeling any outrage over this. Of course it’s not any of MY money being used. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612/320 "2014-02-07T18:34:06Z")
Ah, I got it now. I forgot about all the people flying with the premier. It still seems awfully high, but yeah, I hope she did indeed do a lot of high-level schmoozing for all that money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2014-edition-in-3-d/677612.md?page=17)