# The Canadope Café 2016: The North Awakens **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883 "2016-01-01T05:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/881 "2016-11-29T01:55:09Z")
A Crown prosecutor I know was amused by a charge he got once from the police, alleging that the accused had committed assault with a weapon, “to wit, by throwing a sandwich” at the complainant. Don’t know if he stayed it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/882 "2016-11-29T02:12:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Even if it’s “just” unwanted sexual touching, it’s still sexual assault. Things I learned on the SD in this very thread as it happens (IIRC): “The courts aren’t concerned with trivialities”. Filtered by whose ox is being gored, of course. I remember when a MCpl was teaching us unarmed combat he had a guy who was quite a bit bigger than he was in the pit. He grabbed onto the guy’s testicle and squeezed until he was literally trying to tap out with every part of his body. I wonder if that was ‘unwanted sexual touching’? I can guarantee the fellow didn’t want it! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/883 "2016-11-29T02:15:56Z")
Consent in a training session of unarmed combat likely fall within the same parameters of presumed consent you would find in a hockey game. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/884 "2016-11-29T02:36:33Z")
sure, but there would be implied limits in both cases - no permanent bodily harm (e.g. - eye gouging) in training, no whacking over the head with a hockey stick (e.g. - [Marty McSorley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_McSorley)). Where testicle-squeezing would fall in this range is left as an exercise for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/885 "2016-11-29T03:54:45Z")
As with many things in life, much would depend on the type of sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/886 "2016-11-29T04:36:25Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Consent in a training session of unarmed combat likely fall within the same parameters of presumed consent you would find in a hockey game. I presume that they aren’t training you to injure, maim and kill people in a hockey game. In any case, not much excuse outside of that venue for grabbing someone’s ass (or whatever constitutes ‘unwanted sexual touching’) even if they are ignorant grunts (which I was at one time and wouldn’t think of doing such a thing,… whatever it is!). Just thinking out loud is all. Soldier: “I was helping her through the crowd, Sir” Judge: “By grabbing her ass?” Soldier: “Ass, elbow, I don’t see a difference, Sir!” ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/887 "2016-11-29T05:00:07Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I suggest you walk past the next man, grab his crotch and engage is a discussion around the relative merits of differentiating assault. Which is why we do not put victims in the jury box. Victims tend to exaggerate the gravity of the offense. If it is you walking down the street, would you differentiate the assult of having your crotch “grabbed” (touched) or be whacked up aside the head with an axe handle? Given the choice, are they of equal gravity? Which one can you just laugh and walk away from? Since you use the same language for both. There are some states in which the word “rape” is not in the criminal code (Florida for one) – it is all "sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/888 "2016-11-29T05:10:34Z")
Canada is another. There is no offence of rape. There are three types of sexual assaults. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/889 "2016-11-29T13:37:56Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > If it is you walking down the street, would you differentiate the assult of having your crotch “grabbed” (touched) or be whacked up aside the head with an axe handle? Given the choice, are they of equal gravity? Which one can you just laugh and walk away from? Since you use the same language for both. Well one would be sexual assault and the other would be assault with a weapon, though I’d guess aggravated would be added since an axe handle to the body tends to leave souvenirs. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/890 "2016-11-29T16:09:38Z")
You’ve got the order wrong. You grab me by the crotch (unless you’re Charlize Theron or Anne Hathaway) , You will then be whacked upside the head with an axe handle…If you are one of the former then my wife will be doing the swinging… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/891 "2016-11-29T20:09:29Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > As with many things in life, much would depend on the type of sandwich. What if it’s the same ham sandwich that any U.S. grand jury will supposedly indict? > [@Uzi](#): > > … > > Just thinking out loud is all. > Soldier: “I was helping her through the crowd, Sir” > Judge: “By grabbing her ass?” > Soldier: “Ass, elbow, I don’t see a difference, Sir!” Maybe he’s a Colonial Marine: [Explain this Quote from "Aliens"- "Assholes and Elbows" - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=475306) ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/892 "2016-11-29T22:39:26Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > If a cop gives you a ticket and you “just” tear it up and throw it at him, it’s still “assaulting a police officer”. So what word is in your vocabulary for hitting him over the head with a baseball bat, now that “assault” has been wasted on the harmlessly trivial? Sexual assault has several levels, increasing in severity. If someone touches you or makes physical contact with you, without your consent, in a sexual way, that is sexual assault. My personal crime rose to the level of sexual assault because I was splashed by his ejaculate. I don’t think anyone can argue that is the same as throwing a piece of crumpled paper at someone. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/893 "2016-11-29T22:57:47Z")
First off, **Poysyn** , eww! I’ve never had to deal with any of that crap and I’m sorry you’ve had to. Second, I had to watch one of my co-workers explain to his wife why he had a giant hickey on his neck when his Sgt jumped on him after getting all drunked up and feeling, in his words, “a little Navy”. This was 15 years ago but it was still pretty uncomfortable for all concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/894 "2016-11-30T04:11:01Z")
Yeah, it was…unpleasant. I have spent the last few weeks talking about nothing except sexual misconduct. It’s been a long few weeks, and I may be a bit punchy. Sorry folks. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/895 "2016-11-30T04:23:34Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Sexual assault has several levels, increasing in severity. If someone touches you or makes physical contact with you, without your consent, in a sexual way, that is sexual assault. > > My personal crime rose to the level of sexual assault because I was splashed by his ejaculate. I don’t think anyone can argue that is the same as throwing a piece of crumpled paper at someone. I would argue that there is the same risk of injury. Most Southeast Asian countries have dealt very responsibly with the issue, with their “outrage” laws. It is a serious offense for a man to conduct himself in a way that is intended or likely to outrage a woman. By language, gesture, touching, whatever. It carries none of the semantic baggage of physical violence or brutality. As I understand it, Asians enforce it responsibly, and the application of the law (or threat thereof) has left women in those countries content with their sense of protection from various forrns of harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/896 "2016-11-30T14:06:39Z")
Well I’d be curious to see an example of these “outrage” laws. The laws, as you describe, seem awfully gender specific. Don’t forget prior to 1988 there was Rape, Attempted Rape, Indecent Assault on Male and Indecent Assault on Female. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/897 "2016-11-30T14:52:40Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well I’d be curious to see an example of these “outrage” laws. The laws, as you describe, seem awfully gender specific. It’s called the “outrage of modesty” law, and here’s a rundown on how it works in Singapore. > **[Accused of Molest: Outrage of Modesty in Singapore - SingaporeLegalAdvice.com](https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/what-is-the-offence-of-outrage-of-modesty-in-singapore/)** > > This article explains what is the offence of outrage of modesty and aggravated outrage of modesty and their penalties in Singapore. Not to be confused with the “outrage of decency” law, that is aimed at GLBT behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/898 "2016-11-30T15:22:00Z")
It’s called Assault there too, you just focused on the secondary name. From the [Singapore Penal Code](http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=5b064841-dcf8-4d32-8bf0-d491989a40b6;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22025e7646-947b-462c-b557-60aa55dc7b42%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0#pr351-he-.) > [@](#): > > Assault or use of criminal force to a person with intent to outrage modesty > 354.—(1) Whoever assaults or uses criminal force to any person, intending to outrage or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby outrage the modesty of that person, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years, or with fine, or with caning, or with any combination of such punishments.[51/2007] > (2) Whoever commits an offence under subsection (1) against any person under 14 years of age shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 5 years, or with fine, or with caning, or with any combination of such punishments. You’ll note modesty is left as an exercise for the courts/society at large much the same as in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/899 "2016-11-30T16:22:01Z")
**jtur88** , if I’ve understood you correctly, you think the word “assault” is being trivialized by recent changes to the law, particularly the offence of sexual assault. But it’s not a recent change at all. Here’s the full definition of [“assault” in the Criminal Code](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-265.html): > [@](#): > > Assault > > 265 (1) A person commits an assault when > > (a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly; > > (b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or > > (c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he accosts or impedes another person or begs. As far as I know, this is the definition of “assault” that has been used since the Criminal Code was enacted in 1892. Since then, assault has always included the intentional application of force to another person, however slight; it’s also included threats to apply force, even if no force was applied. Even armed begging is an assault, without any spoken threat to use force. This is not a recent change to the law. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/900 "2016-12-02T13:48:05Z")
The Liberal tapdance on electoral reform turned into a farce yesterday. I’m wondering if there is anyone left who believes they have an ounce of sincerity in them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883.md?page=46)