# The Canadope Café 2016: The North Awakens **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883 "2016-01-01T05:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/901 "2016-12-02T15:42:50Z")
I, for one, don’t want electoral reform. I’m quite happy with first-past-the-post the way it is. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/902 "2016-12-02T16:56:57Z")
I don’t have any big feelings one way or the other but I did read the [report](http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/Committee/421/ERRE/Reports/RP8655791/421_ERRE_Rpt03_PDF/421_ERRE_Rpt03-e.pdf) and I can see where the Liberals are both pissed off and simply dancing around the damn issue. First off, the committee only says the government should have a referendum, put the current FPTP system on the ballot as well as some other system with a [Gallagher Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallagher_Index) under 5. As a point of reference the 2012 general election had a GI of ~12. So the report ultimately says “We should have a referendum on changing the system and the government should recommend something.” I thought recommending something was their job? Surprising no one, the Greens and NDP want a MMR or some sot of Rural/Urban model with urban areas getting multiple MPs. The Liberal obviously disagreed, and if I’m reading this correctly they object to the dilution of direct representation a MMR system would entail. The problem, as I think many these Liberal consultation exercises are going to discover, is that a government needs to make choices regardless of consensus. I don’t see why they did just go with a single transferable ballot with medium sized regions. It keeps the same number of MPs, is easy to explain, there’s no complex mathematical underpinning and it forces MPs to broaden their appeal outside of just motivating their base. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/903 "2016-12-02T18:44:12Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > First off, the committee only says the government should have a referendum, put the current FPTP system on the ballot as well as some other system with a [Gallagher Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallagher_Index) under 5. As a point of reference the 2012 general election had a GI of ~12. So the report ultimately says “We should have a referendum on changing the system and the government should recommend something.” I thought recommending something was their job? There wasn’t a general election in 2012. And to answer your question: No. It was NOT the mandate of the ERRE to come up with one, rock solid plan. It was their mandate to study the issue and provide options. Here it is word for word: [http://www.parl.gc.ca/Committees/en/ERRE/About](http://www.parl.gc.ca/Committees/en/ERRE/About) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/904 "2016-12-02T19:13:11Z")
You’re completely right, it was the 2011 election. :smack: And after reading the mandate I don’t understand the Liberal objections - other than they’d rather not hold a referendum. Actually I’d almost be interested in taking 1 or 2 models and having them applied to a few upcoming by-elections but I doubt there’s time to craft ballots and get approval. At least we might get some insight into practicalities, voter expectations and what type of voter education might be needed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/905 "2016-12-03T04:52:53Z")
That’s actually a very clever idea. The Liberals will accept single transferable ballot, with no referendum, because that is the electoral system that they are likeliest to win, so no other answer was correct. The NDP, more or less, and Greens BIG TIME, will accept proportional representation because - for now - it’s most beneficial to them. The Tories want to keep FPTP because… well I think the pattern is obvious now. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/906 "2016-12-06T20:35:32Z")
The festive season has arrived – yesterday I heard a carol for the first time since last year, accompanying a [vid](https://youtu.be/HfDZixZFzms) of merry Montreal. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/907 "2016-12-07T01:31:05Z")
Thanks for the link, **Muffin**. That was all over the news today, but only excerpts. Nice to see the whole thing. Love how the plow truck continues to spread salt even as it goes out of control down the hill! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/908 "2016-12-08T17:35:39Z")
If you haven’t taken the mydemocracy.ca poll online yet, please do. It’s hilarious. Rather than asking straightforward questions it’s basically a sort of Facebook personality quiz presenting a bunch of false dilemmas. At the end it actually tells you what “type” you are. It told me I am a “Guardian,” which among other things means I do not like online voting. In fact there were at least 4 questions about online voting and I answered EVERY ONE positively. The survey is frankly preposterous and, like the reform committee, is clearly designed to either deliver the answer the Liberals want to hear or simply fail. A monkey could have done a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/909 "2016-12-08T17:56:12Z")
That was terrible. It looks like the questions were thrown together by the High School dance committee. How often have you discussed the dance with people? a) Not all b) Most people c) All people. I wound up as a Guardian as well. Guardians My democracy is decisive and accountable Guardians tend to favour decisive governments that can take swift action and offer a clear line of accountability to voters. While they expect Members of Parliament to faithfully represent their constituents, they also believe, more than other groups, that party loyalty should be respected. They tend to believe that larger parties can govern and represent Canadians in a more efficient and effective way. Guardians are more likely to believe that there is an equal chance for candidates of all backgrounds to be elected, and are less likely to feel special measures are needed to increase the diversity of Members of Parliament. Guardians tend to strongly believe election ballots should be easy for voters to use and to understand. Guardians are less likely to see voter turnout as an area of concern and prioritize security of the vote more than other groups. More than other archetypes, they consider it important that people are free to choose to vote rather than being required to do so. Guardians are also the least likely to support moving from paper ballots to online voting. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/910 "2016-12-08T17:57:03Z")
I tried it a few days ago and about 2/3 of the way through the site froze on me and I quit. Yeah, the questions were quite useless. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/911 "2016-12-08T18:32:16Z")
I’m an Innovator! Yay me! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/912 "2016-12-08T18:41:50Z")
I have not yet taken the survey, or even looked at it, but this: > [@Grey](#): > > Guardians > My democracy is decisive and accountable > > Guardians tend to favour… \ This reads more like the results of a Myers-Briggs personality test, than a way to electoral reform. What concrete ideas does the government hope to find with this? ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/913 "2016-12-08T18:42:31Z")
Viola Desmond will be the first Canadian woman on the $10 bill: > **[Viola Desmond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Desmond)** > > Viola Irene Desmond (July 6, 1914 – February 7, 1965) was a Canadian civil and women's rights activist and businesswoman of Black Nova Scotian descent. In 1946, she challenged racial segregation at a cinema in New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, by refusing to leave a whites-only area of the Roseland Theatre. For this, she was convicted of a minor tax violation for the one-cent tax difference between the seat that she had paid for and the seat that she used, which was more expensive. Desmond's case is on... I think she’s a great choice 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/914 "2016-12-08T18:57:16Z")
Not impressed at all with that survey. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/915 "2016-12-08T19:28:42Z")
Okay, this is hilarious! The _National Post_ has posted its parody of the mydemocracy.ca survey. The Post’s survey is called democracymine.ca, and among the agree/disagree questions it asks: “We should allow voters to express multiple choices on a ballot, even if it means allowing voters to express multiple choices on a ballot.” “Your house was ransacked by thugs, your family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths. You try to open the door, but there’s too much blood on the knob. The voting age should be lowered.” Among the either/or propositions: “Canadians should have the option to cast their ballots online in federal elections, even if this idea may in no way be sustainable with a functioning democracy OR Canadians should continue to vote using paper ballots at a polling station, even if it means Millennials may have to leave the house.” “Heads I win OR Tails you lose.” “Canada should hold a referendum on electoral reform OR Women should continue to be accorded the right to vote.” You can try the Post’s survey here: > **[National Post](https://nationalpost.com/category/news/)** > > Read the latest breaking news in Canada and the rest of the world. We bring all of today's top headlines and stories to your fingertips. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/916 "2016-12-08T19:46:25Z")
That was actually fun and I’m glad someone finally asked me my views on bees. I got Meh Meh My democracy is disinterested and hockey One of the largest segments of Canadian voters, the meh does not particularly care what’s going on in Ottawa, so long as they’re not raising taxes or screwing up too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/917 "2016-12-08T20:37:40Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Viola Desmond will be the first Canadian woman on the $10 bill: > > [Viola Desmond - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Desmond) > > I think she’s a great choice 🙂 I posted in the mini-rants about how she’s being referred to as “Canada’s Rosa Parks”. That bothers the hell out of me considering Rosa Parks did her protest like 9 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/918 "2016-12-08T23:40:26Z")
I’ve never heard of her, but I’ve certainly heard of Rosa Parks. Anyway, I was surprised to even hear that we had segregated sections in movie theatres in Canada. I thought we were above that nonsense. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/919 "2016-12-09T01:01:25Z")
I went to school in the area and every February we would learn about [Mathieu de Costa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathieu_de_Costa), [Viola Desmond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Desmond), and (especially important) the neglection/forced-eviction/razing of [Canada’s oldest Black settlement](http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/africville) by the local government in the 1960’s. The Africville issue is still a particularly sore one for the Black-Nova Scotian community (an old, segregated, and long oppressed one). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883/920 "2016-12-12T16:01:57Z")
About time someone exposed the dark secrets of the Canadian maple syrup cartel: [http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/maple-syrup-heist](http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/maple-syrup-heist) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadope-cafe-2016-the-north-awakens/741883.md?page=47)