# The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014 "2012-01-01T03:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 121
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2402 "2012-12-29T15:19:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Might also mention the blocade of CN Rail at Sarnia (a big petrochemical centre). It’s been going on for a few days. I was interested to see that a statement by CN said that while they obviously can’t support the blockade, they support Chief Spence and her call for a meeting with the Prime Minister. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2403 "2012-12-29T18:59:01Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I was interested to see that a statement by CN said that while they obviously can’t support the blockade, they support Chief Spence and her call for a meeting with the Prime Minister. What else could they say? Hey, everybody, we’ve passed the halfway mark! Days are getting longer again, and it won’t be long until construction starts again! Yay! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2404 "2012-12-29T22:28:35Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I was interested to see that a statement by CN said that while they obviously can’t support the blockade, they support Chief Spence and her call for a meeting with the Prime Minister. Harper should sit down and talk with the First Nations, for if things keep going the way they are, the abysmal poverty will continue. I doubt very much if the First Nations will like a lot of what he has to say, and I doubt if he will like a lot of what they have to say, but a serious conversation needs to begin. BTW, there was another blocade of the Trans-Canada at the end of the work week just east of the Sault, but fortunately vehicles were permitted through every quarter hour. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2405 "2012-12-30T02:08:20Z")
And a blocade of the Trans-Canada today at Wawa. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2406 "2012-12-30T04:54:40Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > BTW, there was another blocade of the Trans-Canada at the end of the work week just east of the Sault, but fortunately vehicles were permitted through every quarter hour. > [@Muffin](#): > > And a blocade of the Trans-Canada today at Wawa. I have to drive to Toronto again this coming summer. Maybe I should just go through the US. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2407 "2012-12-30T05:00:50Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I have to drive to Toronto again this coming summer. Maybe I should just go through the US. Might be a nice drive actually. Why the hell wouldn’t you fly though? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2408 "2012-12-30T05:11:22Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Might be a nice drive actually. Why the hell wouldn’t you fly though? I have some things in storage in Toronto. They’re too much to ship, but too little to call a mover. I drive there, and bring them home. And I like long drives, and discovering parts of Canada I’d be unlikely to see if I flew over them. Besides, it gives me a chance to meet up with Canadian Dopers as I cross the country. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2409 "2012-12-30T05:16:49Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I have some things in storage in Toronto. They’re too much to ship, but too little to call a mover. I drive there, and bring them home. And I like long drives, and discovering parts of Canada I’d be unlikely to see if I flew over them. > > Besides, it gives me a chance to meet up with Canadian Dopers as I cross the country. 😃 I like long drives too Spoons, for much the same reason. If you’re ever passing through Chalk River or Ottawa… ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2410 "2012-12-30T05:26:40Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I like long drives too Spoons, for much the same reason. If you’re ever passing through Chalk River or Ottawa… Head west on 17, and I’ll be happy to meet you in Sudbury. That’s where I turn off for Toronto. In the future, I may well be in Ottawa (I like the city and would like to return), but it’s not in the cards on my Summer 2013 drive. Hey, why not take a weekend in Toronto, and we’ll organize a Dopefest? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2411 "2012-12-30T05:54:48Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Head west on 17, and I’ll be happy to meet you in Sudbury. That’s where I turn off for Toronto. > > In the future, I may well be in Ottawa (I like the city and would like to return), but it’s not in the cards on my Summer 2013 drive. Hey, why not take a weekend in Toronto, and we’ll organize a Dopefest? Well, as you know, I may have some spare time this summer, so it just may be in the cards. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2412 "2012-12-30T07:44:59Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, as you know, I may have some spare time this summer, so it just may be in the cards. Looking forward to it! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2413 "2012-12-30T18:15:52Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Might be a nice drive actually. Why the hell wouldn’t you fly though? I was watching a documentary called [“The Age of Stupid”,](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300563/) and in that documentary, there was a family that was trying to hold their carbon emissions down to one ton per year (theoretically, a sustainable amount). If they took one trip by airplane, that would blow their carbon emissions budget for three and a half years. Good for you for driving, **Spoons**! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2414 "2012-12-30T22:32:43Z")
The new appointees to the Order of Canada have been announced - the [Ottawa Citizen](http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Hockey+greats+politicians+journalists+among+newest+Order/7758397/story.html) article. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2415 "2012-12-31T01:51:24Z")
And they blocked the Toronto-Montreal rail line (including Via) for a couple of hours today. So Cat, I think your city would be nuts to build a highway through First Nation territory. The primary means of protest for First Nations is to blocade, and they have a lot to protest about. The big difference between a highway on-reserve and a highway off-reserve is that off-reserve blockades tend to be short-term, whereas on-reserve blockades can be indefinite in duration due to the Band Council having the authority over who does or does not enter onto reserve land, and blockades on contested land (e.g. [Caledonia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_River_land_dispute)) can be indefinite in duration due to provincial government not wanting to resort to violence. The same can be said for any significant infrastructure. For example, my city recently decomissioned the on-reserve portion of its water supply and expanded it’s off-reserve water supply, despite it reducing us to a single source. Nice to know that we won’t go dry due to a protest. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2416 "2012-12-31T01:56:44Z")
I absolutely agree, **Muffin**. I hope my city council/provincial government get their shit together and create a good plan for the last leg of the ring road that completely bypasses the reservation. It hadn’t even occurred to me that any highway through the reservation could be used for protesting until you guys mentioned it here. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2417 "2012-12-31T02:48:44Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > The new appointees to the Order of Canada have been announced - the [Ottawa Citizen](http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Hockey+greats+politicians+journalists+among+newest+Order/7758397/story.html) article. Good for Ken Dryden and Paul Henderson! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2418 "2012-12-31T02:59:46Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Good for Ken Dryden and Paul Henderson! Touche. Everyone knows Foster Hewitt’s “Henderson scores!” broadcast, but Henderson also scored the winning goals in the 6th and 7th games too. The man should have his own statue on Parliament Hill! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2419 "2012-12-31T03:06:32Z")
Joe Clark and Shawn Atleo met with Theresa Spence. [Clark noted that:](http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Clark+warns+Canada+First+Nations+headed+dangerous+direction/7758052/story.html) > [@](#): > > “My experience has been that direct and honest dialogue is always useful and sometimes essential, particularly in dealing with issues as complex and multi-faceted as the relations between First Nations and Canada." Stephen Harper would do well to listen to this elder. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2420 "2012-12-31T05:08:00Z")
According to the linked item, Mr. Clark said, "Chief Spence expressed a humble and achievable vision — one which I believe all Canadians can embrace.” The item did not say what that vision was though. Any ideas as to what Chief Spence’s vision might be? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2421 "2012-12-31T05:30:07Z")
I don’t have a clue what her vision might be, but I expect that it is something warm and fuzzy. It’s hard to take issue with things such as upholding treaty rights, elimination of poverty, protecting the environment, supporting traditional culture, consulting and accomodating and the like. The devil is in the details – just what is natural law and just what is a nation to nation relationship in the context of tiny, scattered, and often remote communities each trying to assert sovereignty. It is in the working out of the details prior to legislation that all the parties are falling down. What I am concerned about is a severe problem of cultural isolation and economic poverty that will only get worse unless all parties sit down and have serious ongoing discussions that deal with issues rather than assert positions. Indians sitting on bockades and Harper sitting in the PMO does nothing to deal with the issues other than to further polarize parties into entrenched positions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=120) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=122)