# The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014 "2012-01-01T03:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/721 "2012-03-21T14:04:15Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > MoneySense magazine just published ‘[Canada’s Best Places to Live 2012](http://www.moneysense.ca/2012/03/20/canadas-best-places-to-live-2012/)’, with more than a few surprises. (Brandon at #6? Winnipeg at #10?) It’s going to take me a while to go through all of it, but there’s some interesting opinions there. Burlington at #2? 😕 I have nothing against the place but … I suspect that I and the good folks at Moneysense have very different opinions as to what constitutes a best place to live. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/722 "2012-03-21T14:11:36Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Burlington at #2? 😕 I have nothing against the place but … And Ottawa at number 1. **RickJay** and I are apparently very fortunate Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/723 "2012-03-21T14:52:56Z")
Because I loathe highway 7 just that much, I must insist, **Leaffan** , that despite where the lines on the maps are drawn, the fact that you are several minutes _beyond KANATA_ means that you don’t live in Ottawa. I’ve had this argument with my friend, who used to live in Ashton…sorry, it’s the butt-end of nowhere and you can’t claim to live in a big city. 🙂 Also - _Repentigny_ is the best place to live in Québec? REPENTIGNY? If you like mega-malls, big box stores, no local employment and a 3 hour commute over bridges, maybe. Personally, I’d rather kill myself. What a stupid list. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/724 "2012-03-21T14:58:59Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Because I loathe highway 7 just that much, I must insist, **Leaffan** , that despite where the lines on the maps are drawn, the fact that you are several minutes _beyond KANATA_ **means that you don’t live in Ottawa** … That’s not what my tax bill tells me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/725 "2012-03-21T15:06:47Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That’s not what my tax bill tells me. 😉 Ottawa: “We tax people who live an hour away. Best place to live, yeah!!!” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/726 "2012-03-21T15:31:44Z")
As I click on the headers to check the rankings, I’m especially puzzled. Victoria ranks #4 behind Oakville, Burlington and Port Hope for weather? Yellowknife and Whitehorse rank ahead of Stratford for culture? Where are they getting these rankings from? ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/727 "2012-03-21T16:06:28Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > As I click on the headers to check the rankings, I’m especially puzzled. Victoria ranks #4 behind Oakville, Burlington and Port Hope for weather? Yellowknife and Whitehorse rank ahead of Stratford for culture? Where are they getting these rankings from? To be fair, when I visited Yellowknife a couple years ago, it seemed very cultured, if your idea of culture is fishing, dilapidated housing, and public drunkenness. Oh, and I’m pretty sure we drove past a movie theatre! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/728 "2012-03-21T16:54:35Z")
I may be biased, but the fact that Montreal is ranked 149th (though they do have DDO at 136 - no other boroughs or part of the Island make it on the list that I can see?) yet Toronto is 47th and Vancouver is 56th strikes me as rather odd. I honestly have no respect for this list, the more I look at it. It’s insane to compare the unemployment rates of tiny single-industry towns (Estevan, SK - population 10000 primarily working in mining/coal/oil/gas to a city of several million with a much more diverse economy. It’s just a meaningless comparison, really. I don’t get the weather ones either: How is 700mm of precipitation a year ideal? Why? If a mountainous region with lots of skiing and other outdoor winter attractions gets more than that, somehow that’s a bad thing? That’s ridiculous. Number of days below 0C is a negative thing? Really? Do you know how crappy a 0C day is in the middle of winter? Give me -5C and some snow on the ground rather than slush, TYVM. How about days above a certain temperature? How about days of sunniness? How is culture based on number of people _employed_ in the Arts? What about indie bands, artists, performers, theatre troupes, etc _who also work other jobs as their primary source of employment_? I can absolutely tell you that the culture in Sherbrooke is better than that of Brossard (ranked 66th and 20th respectively) - Brossard gets a higher ranking because the _Montréal Canadiens practice facility is located there_. For that matter, read the post by **John** in the comments section [here](http://www.moneysense.ca/2012/03/20/canadas-best-places-to-live-methodology-2012/). He had some of the same thoughts and expressed them better 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/729 "2012-03-21T19:25:56Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > The thing about the provincial PCs in Alberta is that they’re much more of a political machine than an ideologically consistent party. They’ve nominally been right of centre for most of their time in government, but as long as you promise to support the team, you can exist within it with just about any beliefs you want. Any party that had Ed Stelmach and Ted Morton in it at the same time isn’t really that coherent in terms of its stances. The newly chosen premier, Alison Redford, is actually quite progressive. Her first official act (like, within a day of taking office) was to restore education funding that had been cut just months before. My usual line is that you can be any kind of Alberta PC you want, up to and including an NDP PC. It was amusing but not completely inaccurate to see a few of the articles about the Danielle Smith bus calling them the “liberal Progressive Conservatives”. > > So the Wild Rose Party is more of an attempt to form a right-wing party that actually adheres to a consistent set of right-wing beliefs (though these are pretty right-wing as far as Canada goes), protesting what they see as corruption and unresponsive politics. They’re not without a point as the PCs often get kind of lazy with their built in comfort level. Alberta only tends to change government when the existing one is seen as openly incompetent or batshit crazy (or both, in the case of the SoCreds), but it’ll be interesting to see how this challenge works out. What he said. In addition, a lot of the votes for the Wildrose Party are not votes for them, but votes against the glued-in-place Conservatives. As **Waenara** alluded to, you practically have to be caught in the act of eating a baby for a Conservative leader to lose an election here. That all said, I’m not sure why the more rightwing Wildrose Party is attracting so many votes - I think it’s a combination of voting against the Conservatives and not doing your homework (just supporting the other party you’ve actually heard of in the news lately). I think people are also supporting the idea of the Wildrose Party making the Conservatives accountable for all their corruption without looking further into what the Wildrose Party stands for. And, let’s face it, there are still a lot of small-c conservative people here who are okay with a rightwing agenda. Not all of us are rednecks, but some are. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/730 "2012-03-21T19:28:43Z")
Ah, Yellowknife, cultural centre of Canada. Regina is #5 on the Top Ten Cities list? I guess they’ve cleaned up their massive crime problem, then. 😕 And Red Deer at #9. It’s probably close to #1 for rednecks and jacked-up trucks, but I don’t think that was one of the criteria for this list. ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/731 "2012-03-21T20:17:29Z")
I live in Fredericton, #7 on that list, and I must heartily disagree with its placement. It belongs somewhere around, oh, #4000. I looked at the criteria–air quality? Well, it’s a relatively small place surrounded by fifty zillion acres of Irving-owned forests. Sure, the air is nice. Housing? Of course housing is relatively inexpensive, because no one wants to live here. The houses are cheap, sure, but mostly they’re pretty run-down and old. The sales tax is 13%! The transit system is ATROCIOUS. Yes, there’s a hospital and university here, which count for “amenities,” but it’s not like it’s brought all that much to the place. There are still next to no restaurants and hardly any good shops. In the past year, I think half a dozen stores and restaurants “downtown” have closed. This is a useless list. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/732 "2012-03-21T20:18:45Z")
That’s the difficulty of trying to quantify the contribution of culture to society. Employment figures are at least hard facts, but they say nothing about the attendance, the artistic quality nor the outreach to the community. It isn’t enough, apparently, to say that OSM/MSO is an outstanding orchestra with an international reputation and a discography of award-winning recordings - show me some numbers! And where they got figures that show there are more people employed in culture working in Canmore than in Montreal, Toronto or Calgary, I will never know! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/733 "2012-03-21T20:38:51Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > What he said. In addition, a lot of the votes for the Wildrose Party are not votes for them, but votes against the glued-in-place Conservatives. As **Waenara** alluded to, you practically have to be caught in the act of eating a baby for a Conservative leader to lose an election here. True enough. I’ve often said that local Conservative candidates could kick puppies, strangle kittens, and streak down Third Avenue, and still win an election. But there has been some dissatisfaction locally with the Conservatives, mainly for not being conservative enough. Strangely (to me, anyway), such things as abortion and cultural education (including awareness of different religions) in schools are still hot potatoes here in southern Alberta. It may seem to the RoC that these things are settled, as indeed they are; but many people locally are still arguing that abortion is murder and should be illegal, and that the current provincial education bill means that children might be introduced to (gasp) religions other than the ones that their parents adhere to. It sounds backwards, and it is–in some ways, attitudes here don’t seem to have changed since, say, 1966. Sometimes, I’d like to take the population of southern Alberta and drop it all into Toronto for a week, just so folks can see that culturally, religiously, attitudinally, and physically different people aren’t necessarily evil or scary people. But these may be the people who will vote for Wildrose. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/734 "2012-03-21T21:08:50Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > \ > > But these may be the people who will vote for Wildrose. You’re probably right. I am from small-town Saskatchewan, but I’ve been in Calgary for the last 22 years, so I’m probably well out of touch with how small town and rural people think. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/735 "2012-03-21T22:46:16Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Regina is #5 on the Top Ten Cities list? I guess they’ve cleaned up their massive crime problem, then. 😕 The mere fact that Regina places way ahead of Saskatoon tells you all you need to know about the usefulness of this list. 😛 :waving smiley: to **Southern Piper** ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/736 "2012-03-22T03:55:41Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > It’s insane to compare the unemployment rates of tiny single-industry towns (Estevan, SK - population 10000 primarily working in mining/coal/oil/gas to a city of several million with a much more diverse economy. It’s just a meaningless comparison, really. HEY! Estevan produced ME! that’s got to count for something! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/737 "2012-03-22T04:16:50Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You’re probably right. I am from small-town Saskatchewan, but I’ve been in Calgary for the last 22 years, so I’m probably well out of touch with how small town and rural people think. Well, I wouldn’t call our (admittedly, little) city “small town and rural,” but FWIW, I find that I do need a big city break from time to time. A choice of malls, non-“Canadian Chinese” food, and people who have no interest in what church you attend or how often, are among the things I like to encounter from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/738 "2012-03-22T04:42:13Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > HEY! Estevan produced ME! that’s got to count for something! 😃 Definitely a negative. I don’t understand why all of Saskatchewan wasn’t voted down simply because of the watermelon hats. _WATERMELON HATS ARE NOT CULTURE!!!_ ETA: And I’m trying not to think about it, but when he was house sitting my brother told me he drew a watermelon on the bottom of something in my house and he’s 100% convinced I’ll never find it. I try not to think about it - to avoid tearing my house upside down looking for it - but once in a while I look around and wonder… He’s not a Roughrider’s fan, though. He just has a longstanding habit of doodling watermelons on my stuff because he can. ETA ETA: Watermelon hats can GROW culture, though… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/739 "2012-03-22T05:25:37Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Well, I wouldn’t call our (admittedly, little) city “small town and rural,” but FWIW, I find that I do need a big city break from time to time. A choice of malls, non-“Canadian Chinese” food, and people who have no interest in what church you attend or how often, are among the things I like to encounter from time to time. Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean that your city was small town or rural; I just meant that I’m not in touch with people who _do_ live in small towns and on farms. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/740 "2012-03-22T06:21:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean that your city was small town or rural; I just meant that I’m not in touch with people who _do_ live in small towns and on farms. Not at all, and no offense taken. I’m just surprised at the so-called “corporate” people who walk into their lawyer’s office, with manure-encrusted jeans and workboots, and sweaty John Deere cap (which they do not take off) who expect their lawyer to be in a cleaned and pressed suit and shirt and tie. And are insulted if the lawyer dares to have a loosened tie. There’s a reason I practice the law that I do, and such folks aren’t it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=38)