# The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014 "2012-01-01T03:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1081 "2012-05-11T15:07:00Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Hmmm, I can see why it took so long: Professional Student.😉 I worked for a few years in between. I just got too good at my job, was bored out of my mind, hated the thought of taking up any of the other positions in the industry I was qualified for and said “fuck it, I’m doing what I want to do instead!” I chose my first degree at random because I didn’t know what I wanted and figured I might as well get _something_. The second one I got because I wanted it and because it’s what I needed for the career I want. Finished my B.Sc in 2003. Started my B.Eng in 2007, finished in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1082 "2012-05-11T17:37:23Z")
Congratulations, **mnemosyne**! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1083 "2012-05-11T18:44:16Z")
Anyone have any thoughts on Ron MacLean’s pre-game comments which caused such a stir the other night? [http://http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1176665–don-cherry-defends-ron-maclean](http://http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1176665--don-cherry-defends-ron-maclean) ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1084 "2012-05-11T19:09:26Z")
Everything Ron MacLean and/or Don Cherry says is stupid. Or at least enough of it is that they aren’t worth listening to even if they are just reciting facts. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1085 "2012-05-11T19:26:43Z")
Much ado about nothing. Ron MacLean’s a decent enough guy; he didn’t mean any disrespect or anything. I don’t mind Don Cherry either really, if you take him for what he is, an entertainer. I’m not looking for my sports announcers to solve world hunger or anything. Fixed [link](http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1176665--don-cherry-defends-ron-maclean). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1086 "2012-05-11T19:32:31Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > Anyone have any thoughts on Ron MacLean’s pre-game comments which caused such a stir the other night? > > [http://http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1176665–don-cherry-defends-ron-maclean](http://http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1176665--don-cherry-defends-ron-maclean) That link isn’t working for me, but [here’s another one.](http://metronews.ca/news/canada/219388/cherry-defends-macleans-9-11-remarks/) I think Ron just made an error in judgement (not realizing that you just don’t say _anything_ about 9-11 on air that isn’t anything but the most glowing, innocuous statement). ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1087 "2012-05-11T19:36:03Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Fixed [link](http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1176665--don-cherry-defends-ron-maclean). Thanks. Not sure why it didn’t work, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1088 "2012-05-11T19:42:39Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Everything Ron MacLean and/or Don Cherry says is stupid. Or at least enough of it is that they aren’t worth listening to even if they are just reciting facts. I really like MacLean’s closing puns on Coach’s Corner; many of them are pretty damned witty. Not sure if MacLean comes up with them, or a CBC writer , but there have been some doozy chuckles over the years. Recently the segment ended, regarding Nashville Predators’ problems with a couple of Russian players, and the team’s resultant lacklustre performance with “the Predators are stallin’ because of (coach) Trotz’ keys.” I laughed out loud, hehe ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1089 "2012-05-11T20:15:37Z")
I didn’t agree with it - I think first responders of all types are a special level of heroic that no one else quite measures up to. That being said, if that’s the worst gaffe Ron MacLean has dropped in all these years of sitting next to Don ‘full of sound and fury, signifying nothing’ Cherry, he’s doing pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1090 "2012-05-13T05:04:36Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Interesting item in the Globe and Mail: [A year after running for PM, Ignatieff warns of Quebec separation](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/a-year-after-running-for-pm-ignatieff-warns-of-quebec-separation/article2411663/). From the linked item: > > Thoughts? Is Mr. Ignatieff correct? I know this is an old issue, and nobody cares about Ignatieff, but I’m egocentric and so still feel the need to add my two cents (soon rounded down to zero) to this subject. What Ignatieff said, to me, is entirely in line with the official position of the Liberal Party of Canada, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. Basically, what he said is that since the referendum in 1995, the federal government has been divesting power down to Quebec, and that this means Quebec is now _de facto_ quasi independent. He thinks this is only a stepping stone to total independence, which will almost necessarily happen in time since francophone Quebecers and other Canadians now have nothing in common and do not care about each other. Ignatieff is largely right that francophone Quebecers and other Canadians don’t care about (or even like) each other. I know there are cases of dual allegiance like **mnemosyne** , but as for me (even as a fully bilingual Quebecer) the rest of Canada just baffles me, and I know the reverse is also true. For most Canadians, Quebec is a bunch of lazy racists who use threats they have no intention of following upon to extort money without which they’d be a third-world shithole, and to many Quebecers the rest of Canada is a bunch of uncultured, hypocrite navel-gazers who have no care for anything that’ll happen more than a year in the future. (And despite what **mnemosyne** may say, I still think we’re way more – actually too much – tolerant of you than you are of us. As a proof, the Canadians’ stereotype of Quebecers was obvious to me, while I had to think long and hard to find a Quebecers’ stereotype of Canadians, and I’m still not satisfied with it. And this despite the fact that you also stereotype us as hating you, which I can assure you is not true.) However, Ignatieff is wrong that this, and the fact that Quebec – and other Canadian provinces – have a large amount of internal autonomy necessarily leads to complete independence. This, of course, has at least since Trudeau been the position of the Liberal Party. They’ve always thought that anything that might distinguish one province from the other was a slippery slope to the nation’s complete destruction. But the fact is this just isn’t how Canada works. Canadian francophones and anglophones have always lived in largely separate bubbles and not cared about, or even disliked, each other. What Ignatieff claims is a consequence of the 1995 referendum (the disvestment of federal powers to Quebec) is actually much older: for example, Quebec actually established its own immigration policy as early as 1978, as many commenters pointed out in response to him. None of this led to the disintegration of Canada: if anything, some of it is why Quebec is still part of Canada today. I think I can speak for a certain number of Quebec francophones when I say that the less we hear about the rest of Canada, the more federalist we get. While sovereigntists would like Quebecers to rise up with the project to establish a new country for our people, with no hard feelings for the other peoples living in Canada, the sad fact is that we only vote for sovereignty when we’re angry and perceive that this country despises us, doesn’t consider us to be true Canadians and doesn’t want us here. I know it’s true for me, and the fact that support for sovereignty rose up to nearly 65% in the wake of the Meech Lake accord’s rejection and was still almost at 50% at the referendum supports my point. To make a long story short, Ignatieff is wrong. But his analysis is certainly what I’d expect from a federal Liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1091 "2012-05-13T05:46:06Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > …, the sad fact is that we only vote for sovereignty when we’re angry and perceive that this country despises us,\*\* doesn’t consider us to be true Canadians\*\* and doesn’t want us here. True Canadians don’t vote for separation. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1092 "2012-05-13T07:23:18Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > What Ignatieff claims is a consequence of the 1995 referendum (the disvestment of federal powers to Quebec) is actually much older: for example, Quebec actually established its own immigration policy as early as 1978… Provincial power over immigration existed much earlier than that. All provinces can establish their own immigration policy, and have been able to since the passing of the _BNA Act_ in 1867. See [s. 95](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-5.html#s_95) of the Constitution: > [@](#): > > **95.** In each Province the Legislature may make Laws in relation to … Immigration into the Province; and it is hereby declared that the Parliament of Canada may from Time to Time make Laws in relation to … Immigration into all or any of the Provinces; and any Law of the Legislature of a Province relative to … Immigration shall have effect in and for the Province as long and as far only as it is not repugnant to any Act of the Parliament of Canada. Note that section 95 deals with agriculture and immigration; I took out the bits about agriculture to make it easier to read. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1093 "2012-05-13T19:10:54Z")
It’s getting increasingly more moot to argue over what is and what isn’t a provincial power these days - for example, as far as I know, taxation and natural resources are both supposed to be under provincial jurisdiction, but in reality the federal government seems to have taken over both of those. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1094 "2012-05-13T22:58:59Z")
My impression as an inyterested disinterested party is that except for the core _Separatiste_ groups, most Francophone Quebecois regard Quebec as a _nation_ in the same sense as the U.K. is made up of four nations, e.g., Scotland and Wales – an integral part of the larger country with a distinct ethnicity. What Qiebec gets or does not get from Ottawa is secondary to this identity. How accurate is that in your opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1095 "2012-05-13T23:27:27Z")
Other than Quebec was never a separate country like those in your example were (although so long ago that it really shouldn’t matter). The difference between Quebec and the rest of Canada boils down to language. They claim a separate culture, but the only real difference is that they watch HNIC in another language. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1096 "2012-05-14T01:53:09Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Other than Quebec was never a separate country like those in your example were (although so long ago that it really shouldn’t matter). Huh? It was part of a separate country: France. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1097 "2012-05-14T02:00:45Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Huh? It was part of a separate country: France. It was never an independent country like Scotland, Wales, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1098 "2012-05-14T02:11:58Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I know this is an old issue, and nobody cares about Ignatieff, but I’m egocentric and so still feel the need to add my two cents (soon rounded down to zero) to this subject… I find your comments very presumptuous of what you think Canada as a whole thinks. If you want to consider what some redneck farmer in Saskatchewan thinks about Quebec, and compare that to what some separatist in Baie-Comeau thinks then fine. Believe me though, most of English Canada isn’t walking around with pitchforks and lanterns getting ready to oust Quebec from the federation. We appreciate your culture, hydro-electricity, hockey players, musicians, engineers, etc. just fine. I do have an issue with the fact that federal jobs are being taken by under-qualified people who happen to speak both official languages. Most of English Canada was blindsided by this new requirement and a lot of us are sending our own kids into French immersion classes to help the next generation get caught up. We’re not opposed to French and we don’t hate French people or the culture; we grew up in an English country (for the most part) and never realized we would be excluded for jobs based on our mis-comprehension of a language we barely even knew about. There was no French in southern Ontario when I was growing up. None. No signage. No anything. It might as well have been Russian. Then suddenly we needed this skill. Yes, it’s different for French people, because if you wanted to interact with the rest of Canada, the US, and most of the world you needed English. You knew this when you were growing up. Your parents knew this. French is a new requirement placed on us that we had no warning of. I studied French in high school. I’m way better off than most Anglos, but I still find it difficult to accept that I’m a second class citizen in my own country because I’m not fully fluent in a language that was not part of my required curriculum growing up. This, is in my opinion, a sore point for people of my generation. It’s not about hating French people, or French culture, or French anything. It’s about fairness to a majority of people who are living under new rules that they had no part in creating. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1099 "2012-05-14T02:46:20Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > It’s about fairness to a majority of people who are living under new rules that they had no part in creating. Bwah? If the majority didn’t put it in then who did? Who is putting in these requirements other than our elected government? And who in their right mind wants a career in government for their kids when there are so many other better options than mindless dronery. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1100 "2012-05-14T02:58:32Z")
I assure you, my job at Atomic Energy is anything but mindless dronery, nor is my wife’s job at the Food Inspection Agency. What a disrespectful and ill-informed comment. Where do you work? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=56)