# The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014 "2012-01-01T03:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/101 "2012-01-08T04:40:29Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Maybe I missed something. I wasn’t saying that the US would invade Canada, nor was I saying anything about Canada spending on Medicare vs. the Military. > > I was saying that without the US the world would be quite a bit different than it is today and not for the better. Well that’s nice, but the entire discussion was about whether Canada was able to afford medicare because US military spending allowed us to spend less on our own military. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/102 "2012-01-08T07:20:18Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Maybe I missed something. I wasn’t saying that the US would invade Canada, nor was I saying anything about Canada spending on Medicare vs. the Military. > > I was saying that without the US the world would be quite a bit different than it is today and not for the better. Nuclear weapons did not stop Soviet expansion or cause its eventual downfall. Would you mind explaining, then, why the Soviets didn’t invade West Germany? Either they were nicer guys than you’re giving them credit for being, or the West’s formal policy of Overwhelming Response - in effect, their announced intention to immediately use nuclear weapons in response to a conventional attack - had an effect on Soviet strategy. MAD was not accepted strategy until the 1960s and even then the USA planned to win nuclear war well into the early 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/103 "2012-01-08T07:48:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Would you mind explaining, then, why the Soviets didn’t invade West Germany? Either they were nicer guys than you’re giving them credit for being, or the West’s formal policy of Overwhelming Response - in effect, their announced intention to immediately use nuclear weapons in response to a conventional attack - had an effect on Soviet strategy. > > MAD was not accepted strategy until the 1960s and even then the USA planned to win nuclear war well into the early 1980s. And this deals with Canadian current events how? I hate to junior mod, but it seems to me that this discussion might best be suited for GD. No doubt it is worth pursuing, but Canada’s defense policy during the Cold War might be best in its own GD thread, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/104 "2012-01-08T08:03:32Z")
I think that Canada’s efforts at developing the UN and peacekeeping (particularly by Pearson) were far more effective at stabilizing the world than any amount of Canadian arms build-up could have been. A few more battalions or the development of a nuke program would not have helped solve the Suez crisis, or structure the UN Security Council, or get the first world nations invested in peacekeeping. I would like to see Canada get back on track when it comes to taking a leadership role at the UN and in peacekeeping again. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/105 "2012-01-08T08:30:35Z")
I’ve got it! For a Canadopefest, hold a [Musk Ox Serenade](http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1095/goawaythisspotistaken.jpg) on the top of Ellesmere! It would be a shoe-in for le Ministre de l’au-delà to obtain CCA funding for the composition, travel and performance. I have a cousin who’s hubby is one hell of a good chef who [may still be up that way](http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/PickleLakeLow.htm) if he hasn’t retired yet, so le Ministre (and the musk ox) would have a most excellent meal. Since there’s no way in hell that the rest of us could afford to fly up there, the performance would have to be webcast and the gatherting would have to be virtual, so it’s too bad that we have missed the boat for the Canada Post Food Mail program. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/106 "2012-01-08T08:41:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Would you mind explaining, then, why the Soviets didn’t invade West Germany? Because the combination of military might and nuclear arsenal prevented them from doing so? And how much did Canada invest in nuclear weapons, btw? I mean if that is your contention on what prevented the USSR from doing more than what they did do then what was our contribution? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/107 "2012-01-08T09:11:52Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And how much did Canada invest in nuclear weapons, btw? I mean if that is your contention on what prevented the USSR from doing more than what they did do then what was our contribution? As a result of the 1942 Québec Agreement, the Brits and Americans worked together on the bomb. C.D. Howe was part of the management committee of the British Uranium Committee project which, as part of figuring out how to design an atomic bomb, determined the critical mass of uranium for such a bomb. (This is the same guy who following the war headed Canada’s nuclear generation program which to this day has strong ties with the British.) As I expect you know, Canada provided uranium for bombs from the outset (including the Hiroshima bomb) and throughout the cold war, permitted American nukes to be based in Canada, and participated fully in continental defense initiatives such as the Pinetree Line, the Mid-Canada Line, the McGill Fence, the DEW line, and NORAD (in which it still fully participates). ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/108 "2012-01-08T09:26:16Z")
So, in other words, Canada contributed some brainpower,made money selling uranium, let others use some land, and participates in NORAD. Yeah, I knew most of it. Kind of a long way from paying for the bombs themselves and for the delivery systems required to use them, don’t you think? [Maintenance costs](http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2004/05/06_cipolat_weapons-price.htm) of the US nuclear arsenal. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but Canada isn’t paying for it. I don’t have the costs of the development and building of same, which might have been considerable. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/109 "2012-01-08T10:56:32Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Kind of a long way from paying for the bombs themselves and for the delivery systems required to use them, don’t you think? Canada should subsidise the USA`s military? Nah, their military is too big as it is. The USA has a nasty tendancy to use their excess power to get mired down in utterly useless wars such as Vietnam and Iraq. Let`s not confuse our defense interests with the USA`s fetish for fighting, and let`s certainly not subsidise it. When you can come up with a credible threat to Canada that requires a Canadian military response, then let`s talk about what Canda should do. As it stands, there is no threat other than a bit of poaching. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/110 "2012-01-08T11:11:08Z")
Which reminds me – I missed my Christmas call with my uncle Gordie on Machias Seal, who’s sole job is to defend Canada’s sovereignity against those folks whom you want us to subsidize. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/111 "2012-01-08T11:18:29Z")
So, you agree then that the US, by spending as it does on its military and eliminating or minimizing threats, benefits Canada and allows us to spend less on ours. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/112 "2012-01-08T12:19:26Z")
Of course not. As has been pointed out upthread, we do not have any military theats. If you think that there is a credible military threat to Canada that requires a larger force than we have, please set out such threat. I don’t think there is. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/113 "2012-01-08T13:18:43Z")
Just before Christmas, [Baird appointed Hugh Segal](http://www.international.gc.ca/media/aff/news-communiques/2011/386.aspx?lang=eng&view=d)as Canada’s special envoy for Commonwealth renewal. Segal helped put together _[A COMMONWEALTH OF THE PEOPLE. Time for Urgent Reform. The Report of the Eminent Persons Group to Commonwealth Heads of Government](http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=a%20commonwealth%20of%20the%20people%20time%20for%20urgent%20reform&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealth.org%2Ffiles%2F241620%2FFileName%2FEminentPersonsGroupReport.pdf&ei=mpYJT_ymOKbw0gGmnenCAg&usg=AFQjCNETKUiQROq4ujIlDcu9Dm0aijFmfQ&sig2=BdCyQ6s8rCwq_TSWVCHTAQ)_, which proposes, among other things, the establishment of a Commissioner for Democracy, the Rule of Law and Human Rights. It’s nice to see that he is following through on this, for I think such a commission would carry moral suasion. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/114 "2012-01-08T18:57:07Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > And this deals with Canadian current events how? > > I hate to junior mod, but it seems to me that this discussion might best be suited for GD. No doubt it is worth pursuing, but Canada’s defense policy during the Cold War might be best in its own GD thread, don’t you think? I’m not trying to junior mod, either, and I don’t think you’re wrong that an entire thread in Great Debates could be devoted to this assertion. However, I had to whittle down my intended thread title to just ‘current events and politics’. I’m hoping we can feel free to respectfully discuss > [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > politics, current events, sports, history, arts, literature, cultural institutions, the weather, places we have been and places we would like to go… In other words, our perceptions of our history is a fascinating topic I’d enjoy discussing as well. I also feel that in terms of current policy, our decision(s) on military spending have cast a long shadow, and this idea that the USA has somehow carried us along through the years while they were taking all the heat for us has become a persistent meme of the American right, and our response to it has shaped policy in the past (Remember in the late 1970s when Trudeau said cruise missile testing was ‘part of our NATO obligations’?) The comments on the YouTube video that Sunspace posted show that this idea that the USA ‘saved’ us in WWI, WWII and throughout the Cold War persists through to today. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/115 "2012-01-08T19:24:38Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Because the combination of military might and nuclear arsenal prevented them from doing so? > And how much did Canada invest in nuclear weapons, btw? \ I have suspicions about all those Candu reactors - I have a theory that the Prime Minister has the codes to turn them into nuclear weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/116 "2012-01-08T20:51:32Z")
Having mentioned history, I’ve been enjoying this article from the Toronto Star today - [The War of 1812 from A to Z.](http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/1112083--the-war-of-1812-from-a-to-z) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/117 "2012-01-09T01:39:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Of course not. As has been pointed out upthread, we do not have any military theats. If you think that there is a credible military threat to Canada that requires a larger force than we have, please set out such threat. I don’t think there is. And as I’ve pointed out the reason we don’t have a credible military threat is because of the US and what it spends on its military. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/118 "2012-01-09T22:28:49Z")
My brother sent me this link of his blog about [Peter McKay’s wedding](http://straightfromthebowels.blogspot.com/2012/01/heartbreaking-news.html). I thought I’d share it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/119 "2012-01-09T23:07:59Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And as I’ve pointed out the reason we don’t have a credible military threat is because of the US and what it spends on its military. Which has what to do with how much we spend on health care? And actually, the reason we have no credible military threat is that **we have no neighbours except one with no interest in fighting with us.** I believe you will find there is a rather strong correlation between getting into wars and being near to countries that you’re belligerent with. I again point out that countries that put huge armies into the field do NOT have a record of being able to keep the peace if they have angry neighbours. Exhibit 1: Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/120 "2012-01-10T00:35:00Z")
> [@detop](#): > > My brother sent me this link of his blog about [Peter McKay’s wedding](http://straightfromthebowels.blogspot.com/2012/01/heartbreaking-news.html). I thought I’d share it. For what purpose? It’s Mr. McKay’s personal life. Don’t stoop. I wish this was the pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=7)