# The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014 "2012-01-01T03:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/121 "2012-01-10T00:38:36Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And as I’ve pointed out the reason we don’t have a credible military threat is because of the US and what it spends on its military. I tend to agree with this. We potentially could be easy pickings for anyone, given our undersized (yet highly competent) and aged (but we’re now making up for decades of neglect) military. To think that we haven’t been fortunate for US support is somewhat naive. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/122 "2012-01-10T01:36:52Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > For what purpose? It’s Mr. McKay’s personal life. Don’t stoop. > > I wish this was the pit. you clearly didn’t read the article ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/123 "2012-01-10T01:49:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Which has what to do with how much we spend on health care? I have no idea. Why do you keep asking about it because it doesn’t concern me. > [@](#): > > And actually, the reason we have no credible military threat is that **we have no neighbours except one with no interest in fighting with us.** I believe you will find there is a rather strong correlation between getting into wars and being near to countries that you’re belligerent with. You mean today, right now? You are correct. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/124 "2012-01-10T02:05:38Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > you clearly didn’t read the article Yeah I did. I have nothing against the article, per se, but why “Peter MacKay, a man of action, married his Iranian-born girlfriend, Nazanin Afshin-Jam, in Mexico, land of La Cucaracha.” Yeah. Classy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/125 "2012-01-10T21:55:57Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > You mean today, right now? You are correct. Why is that? Because Canada is located on the northern half of North America, and so isn’t near anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/126 "2012-01-10T22:14:53Z")
No, no, **RickJay** - you’ve got it all wrong. The US Army Corps of Engineers widened both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, froze the Arctic Ocean, and lowered the temperature of the North, all to protect Canada from invasion. _That’s_ how Canada has been free-loading on the US military budget. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/127 "2012-01-10T22:23:06Z")
The only thing remotely conceivable would be the Soviets making incursions into our part of the arctic. They have a long history of exploration along their arctic coast, ranging from early journies in wooden ships right up to using atomic icebreakers to lead modern freighters. I could see that leading to some confrontations, but as far as a full blown invasion goes, not a chance. Let’s face it, the USSR had no interest in occupying Canada across the arctic ocean. All this business about the USA and the Soviet Union arose out of the countries that formed a buffer around the USSR, and had nothing to do with the Soviet Union having any intentions about occupying Canada. The same can be said for China, which I might add had better relations with Canada than the USA. Aside from those two, there were no other nations that had any ability to do major damage to Canada or that had any ability to invade Canada who were not already allies of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/128 "2012-01-10T22:40:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No, no, **RickJay** - you’ve got it all wrong. > > The US Army Corps of Engineers widened both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, froze the Arctic Ocean, and lowered the temperature of the North, all to protect Canada from invasion. _That’s_ how Canada has been free-loading on the US military budget. In 1943, the US Army Corps of Engineers reversed much of northwestern Ontario’s [upper Ogoki](http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22jackfish%20river%22%20%22lake%20nipigon%22%20%22army%20corps%20of%20engineers%22&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.wwf.ca%2Fdownloads%2Fwwf_canadas_riversatrisk_technicalreport.pdf&ei=7LoMT6bqMoXw0gHArLXxBQ&usg=AFQjCNGY3TWoooWESGZZmBHltsjdJsn0Tg&sig2=5ikdXX93XnNG11O9ifMsug), causing it to flow down into Nipigon and the Great Lakes rather than out into the Arctic Ocean. The cover story for this was that it was to provide more water for the turbines at Niagara Falls, but in fact, it was to lower the Arctic Ocean, and thereby make a land bridge for the USA to invade the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/129 "2012-01-11T00:03:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The cover story for this was that it was to provide more water for the turbines at Niagara Falls, but in fact, it was to lower the Arctic Ocean, and thereby make a land bridge for the USA to invade the USSR. I thought it was a covert operation to test the defence capabilities of the[North Ontario Air Force.](http://www.nfb.ca/film/blackfly) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/130 "2012-01-11T00:34:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Because Canada is located on the northern half of North America, and so isn’t near anyone else. Hmmm, yes. Ask the Natives how that worked out for them. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/131 "2012-01-11T00:59:17Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Hmmm, yes. Ask the Natives how that worked out for them. Right, because our army uses flint-tipped spears for weapons, and dog-pulled travois for cargo. And they’re exceptionally susceptible to smallpox. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/132 "2012-01-11T01:01:47Z")
Since smallpox has been eradicated, I don’t think we need to worry about being decimated the way the First Nations were. Yes, we have benefited from our military alliances with the US, the Commonwealth and NATO. We have also benefited from our close economic ties all over the world. Our elected leaders have spent what they felt was appropriate on our military, and they were elected or defeated as the voters chose. Have any of the political leaders of our allies threatened to pull out of treaties with us because they felt we weren’t pulling our weight? Not to my knowledge; as with all agreements between nations, there may well have been some give and take in negotiations, but the final treaties were drawn up to the satisfaction of all parties. Yes, I have heard American right-wing commentators vilify us for under-spending on our military, but they tend to be the same people who call us ‘Soviet Canuckistan’ or who spread the persistent falsehood that the 9/11 terrorists came from Canada. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/133 "2012-01-11T01:26:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Hmmm, yes. Ask the Natives how that worked out for them. Did the USA protect them? Get serious. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/134 "2012-01-11T02:03:34Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > I thought it was a covert operation to test the defence capabilities of the[North Ontario Air Force.](http://www.nfb.ca/film/blackfly) > [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > . . . I don’t think we need to worry about being decimated the way the First Nations were. One of the hazards if flying in to remote reserves in northern Ontario is that some folks like to take pot shots at the plane. On one occasion our plane was shot while flying in to one of the remote reserves. A mechanic who was flown in immediately made the repairs during the day. When it came time to fly out, the police who flew in with the mechanic searched the bush on either side of the runway to flush out any shooter who might be wanting a second chance at us, and arrested a couple of fellows. Now in our plane there was a further police officer, a judge, a crown attorney (prosecutor), a defence attorney (me), a court clerk, and a court reporter. Since we had a complete court on board, I suggested to the judge that we should hold the trial while flying back to town. Quick justice, less chance of their buddies shooting at us with them in the plane, and an easy solution to any contempt of court issues – just open the door and toss them out. The judge was unpersuaded, and instead left the matter in the hands of the police on the ground while we flew away. So much for justice. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/135 "2012-01-11T02:52:00Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > One of the hazards if flying in to remote reserves in northern Ontario is that some folks like to take pot shots at the plane. Speaking of flying to remote reserves in northern Ontario, I heard about a plane crash in northern Ontario today, and I thought about you **Muffin**. I’m happy to see that you weren’t one of the passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/136 "2012-01-11T03:02:32Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The judge was unpersuaded, and instead left the matter in the hands of the police on the ground while we flew away. So much for justice. Justice delayed is justice denied! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/137 "2012-01-11T03:14:03Z")
That would be an overhaul of the justice system - go up for a flight with the judge and two lawyers and your accuser, and if you don’t come back, you were guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/138 "2012-01-11T03:50:35Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Speaking of flying to remote reserves in northern Ontario, I heard about a plane crash in northern Ontario today, and I thought about you **Muffin**. I’m happy to see that you weren’t one of the passengers. One of my friends is covering it for the CBC in the morning (CBC News Network at 8:00 a.m. est). It sounds pretty gruesome so far – missed the runway trying to land in a snowstorm (the locals were surprised that the flight tried to land in zero visibility – it is a gravel strip only), hit the frozen lake and burned – screams from the plane were heard by people nearby – four died, one passenger survived who was extremely lucky that the doctor who visits for one day a month happened to be there. Rumoured that the pilot was young, but that is just a rumour at this point (most of the pilots on flights to the remote reserves are young). ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/139 "2012-01-11T07:22:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Did the USA protect them? Get serious. No, and look where they are now. Living in crappy reserves. [QUOTE=Gorsnak] Right, because our army uses flint-tipped spears for weapons, and dog-pulled travois for cargo. And they’re exceptionally susceptible to smallpox. [/QUOTE] Compared to the former USSR, yes we are armed with flints and spears. I can’t believe people argue this. Without the US existing as it does we would not be living the way we do. Go back to WW2. Assume the US remained isolationist and didn’t enter the war. Scenario 1: The Germans don’t need to worry about a 2nd front and push through Moscow. Japan attacks from the east, not having to fight the US in the Pacific, and consolidates its hold on Asia. Both are sitting there uncontested with large armies. Eventually they would move those armies to the only area not under their sway. Scenario 2: The USSR manages to beat back the German forces and hold off the Japanese. They don’t stop in Berlin because Germany would pull back further west. The USSR finally prevails when they have essentially conquered all of Europe. Not being satisfied that there are bastions of capitalism still in the world, look towards North America. By the US being there we’ve avoided both scenarios. Back to today. The US suddenly goes isolationist. They say a hearty “F\*\*\* y\*\*, leave us alone you ungrateful bastards”, to the rest of the world and break all ties with their allies, cutting back spending on their military drastically. You think those border countries with Russia would be worried? You think France is going to help them? Or Germany? Yeah, they’d like having German troops on their soil again. How about China? Iran, and a host of other countries chomping at the bit with visions of empire in their heads? At the least, each one of those countries will increase their military spending substantially. And so would Canada. It would be unavoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/140 "2012-01-11T12:33:53Z")
When I was a kid, I enjoyed a Parker Brothers (now Hasbro) board game called “Risk”. Can’t say that I ever confused it with the real world, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=8)