# The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014 "2012-01-01T03:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 91
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1802 "2012-10-01T01:22:15Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Thanks. > > The thing is though, that this, and about a half dozen other “mis-truths” are constantly parroted as proof the Current Conservative government is not capable of governing Canada. I read the comments section at the Globe and Mail daily and am embarrassed by the lack of knowledge of seemingly politically astute Canadians. It is mind boggling. > > New prisons. > Little Hitler. > No respect for democracy. > Hidden agenda. > Won’t answer public questions. > Anti-gay. > Anti-abortion. > Zionist. > In the pocket of “Big Oil.” > Global warming denier. > > There is nothing to back any of this shit up, and frankly I’m growing tired of the same old “if you say it often enough it must be true” bullshit from the left. > > Not directed at you specifically, **Le Ministre**. I’m pretty sure over a couple of beers we could reach a middle ground and remain friends! But it’s tiring. I think you forgot about the F-35 debacle. 🙂 I watched a “Fifth Estate” episode on that last week (which was kind of fascinating), and the anti-Conservative slant was pretty obvious. Anyway, back to the gender-selective abortion debate. I support a woman’s right to choose, even if she chooses something that I don’t agree with (i.e. gender selective abortion). I don’t support a woman’s husband’s right to tell her what she has to do with her own body. I don’t know how to separate the two, though, when you have a couple from a misogynistic, woman-oppressing culture. Your story is horrific, **Spoons** - I’m afraid it happens far too often in Canada. We’re supposed to consider all cultures equal and valid in Canada, but I don’t support a misogynistic culture, and I _do_ hope that Muslim women growing up in Canada become less willing to participate in their own oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1803 "2012-10-01T01:36:59Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think you forgot about the F-35 debacle. 🙂 Frankly, I’m amazed at how much the average [del]Torontonian[/del] Canadian knows about fighter planes; the technology, the requirements, the impact on local tech firms, the spare parts, the interoperability with allies, the weaponry, the range and fuel and temperature, the maintenance costs, the training. I really amazes me how many average Canadians posting to the Globe and Mail website understand all of these requirements better that the Minister of Defence and all of his colleagues. Fascinating shit. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1804 "2012-10-01T02:15:32Z")
The more nations that drop out of the F-35, the more expensive it will be for those that remain. Is the F-35 still the way to go when weighed against other priorites? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1805 "2012-10-01T02:33:12Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The more nations that drop out of the F-35, the more expensive it will be for those that remain. Is the F-35 still the way to go when weighed against other priorites? Well, that’s a damned good question, isn’t it? A very good question that elected officials and senior members of the armed forces are paid very well to consider. Do you know more than Peter McKay or Walter Natynczyk? Are you qualified to speak on the F-35 program? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1806 "2012-10-01T02:38:37Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, that’s a damned good question, isn’t it? A very good question that elected officials and senior members of the armed forces are paid very well to consider. > > Do you know more than Peter McKay or Walter Natynczyk? Are you qualified to speak on the F-35 program? Well, I _did_ watch a 45 minute, slanted documentary on it…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1807 "2012-10-01T02:43:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think you forgot about the F-35 debacle. Not a debacle, but a lack of understanding of [basic accounting practices.](http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/1555561067001) by opposition parties. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1808 "2012-10-01T02:49:49Z")
Awe, man **Cat Whisperer** that’s just it, isn’t it? People see 45 minute stories. People read 5-word headlines. People listen to 30 second radio clips. People watch 2 minute news stories. And then, people form opinions. Hey, I’m one of those people too, but I recognize it. I recognize that I might not have all of the information. I try not to attack. I try not to alienate. I try to read the Globe and Mail, along with the Sun papers. If I’m feeling really outlandish, I’ll see what the Toronto Star has on their headlines. Anyway, be excellent to one another. (Bill and Ted) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1809 "2012-10-01T03:53:54Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Do you know more than Peter McKay or Walter Natynczyk? Are you qualified to speak on the F-35 program? Leaffan, I’m into hearing what qualified people have to say, and then making up my own mind. I’m not into blindly accepting what one faction or another asserts simply based on their being in a position of authority. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1810 "2012-10-01T04:06:26Z")
Would you feel comfortable deciding which replacement valve should go into the cooling loop of a nuclear reactor based upon the testimony of people who are parliamentary critics, or would you trust the nuclear operator and the CNSC to make an appropriate call? Yeah, it’s a stretch, but for Christ’s sake people, stop playing armchair know-it-fucking-all; 'cause you don’t. Not necessarily you **Muffin** , but every-fucking-one who thinks he knows fucking every-fucking-thing is killing me. I can’t read the comments at the Globe and Mail without wanting to jump off a bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1811 "2012-10-01T04:13:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Would you feel comfortable deciding which replacement valve should go into the cooling loop of a nuclear reactor based upon the testimony of people who are parliamentary critics, or would you trust the nuclear operator and the CNSC to make an appropriate call? MacKay is a lawyer turned politician, not a Super Smee, so by your logic, he should not be party to F-35 decisions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1812 "2012-10-01T04:14:47Z")
I seem to remember a lot of _flak_ on the acquisition of the CF 18 Hornet ,the additional upgrades, and the high cost about 30 years ago.Its deja vu. And then we somehow did okay with it. If we are going to get new fighter planes we might as well go for the best, join our allies and pay the price. I never did like the idea of buying second hand submarines from Britain like we were some third world country ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1813 "2012-10-01T04:29:34Z")
The difficult thing is trying to separate the shit from the shinola, for politicians have a nasty habit of holding to the party line, fighting for the sake of fighting, making issues where there are none, and only putting forward one point of view, all in hopes of making points with the public rather than working together as legislators to make sound decision. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1814 "2012-10-01T04:55:53Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > If we are going to get new fighter planes we might as well go for the best, join our allies and pay the price. I never did like the idea of buying second hand submarines from Britain like we were some third world country It’s interesting how the second-hand submarines somehow DON’T serve as a cautionary tale. They were a complete disaster and we’ve now spent $2 billion to kill a man in a fire. They’ve added nothing to Canada’s military capability and when they do become operational will add just slightly nect to nothing, since - despit the apologetics you have read - a diesel-electric submarine is to today’s naval warfare as a biplane is to today’s aerial warfare. The difference between a nuclear-powered attack sub and DE one is like the difference between a musket and a machine gun. That isn’t to say F-35 will necessarily work out. Not every airplane projet works out. The Arrow was a fiscal catastrophe, and at the same time the U.S. abandoned several similar projects. The F-22 Raptor has been a horrible disaster. It might not, in fact, end up being the aircraft of choice. But the fact is Canada hasn’t bought any. It’s perfectly logical for us to do what we are, in fact, doing, which is to stay connected tothe project, since if it does work it’s a sensational idea - a single aircraft, used by many of our allies, with common systems. If it doesn’t, we can look for alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1815 "2012-10-01T05:59:28Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Your story is horrific, **Spoons** - I’m afraid it happens far too often in Canada. We’re supposed to consider all cultures equal and valid in Canada, but I don’t support a misogynistic culture, and I _do_ hope that Muslim women growing up in Canada become less willing to participate in their own oppression. I hope so too. Of course, her husband’s excuse was “Canada is multicultural, so that means we can live and believe and do like we did back in Pakistan.” Well, to a degree, yes; but he should have understood that some things that he may have done in Pakistan are flatly illegal here–he could not, for example, beat his wife into obeying him. Shazia was an excellent assistant. I hope she is well, and I wish her the best, wherever she may be. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1816 "2012-10-01T06:05:20Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I can’t read the comments at the Globe and Mail without wanting to jump off a bridge. Then don’t. I’ve read them too, and they don’t indicate much good about Globe readers. So I stopped reading them. The Letters to the Editor are often interesting, informed, and thought-provoking; but the online comments–nope. Just stop reading them. I did. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1817 "2012-10-01T07:38:25Z")
In other news, it seems that Barbara Ann Scott has passed away. She won gold for Canada in figure skating at the 1948 Olympics. [Globe and Mail story](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/canadian-figure-skating-great-barbara-ann-scott-dies/article4578669/). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1818 "2012-10-02T00:07:13Z")
OMFG, Calgary West voters, would you stop voting for this [asshole already?](http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Mulcair+goaded+Layton+risk+health+campaign+says+Conservative/7325875/story.html) (Rob Anders shoots off his dickhead mouth again.) Does this guy have incriminating photos of every member of the Conservative Party so that they refuse to bounce his stupid ass? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1819 "2012-10-02T00:10:08Z")
Also, this is interesting - [cut BC out of the proposed pipeline and send the crude oil to the east instead.](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndps-mulcair-throws-support-behind-west-to-east-oil-pipeline/article4574676/) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1820 "2012-10-02T00:38:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > OMFG, Calgary West voters, would you stop voting for this [asshole already?](http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Mulcair+goaded+Layton+risk+health+campaign+says+Conservative/7325875/story.html) (Rob Anders shoots off his dickhead mouth again.) Does this guy have incriminating photos of every member of the Conservative Party so that they refuse to bounce his stupid ass? Straw, meet camel’s back. I’m convinced he’ll be turfed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/1821 "2012-10-02T02:21:13Z")
What a truly vile thing to say. What a disgrace to his riding and his party. His apology was bullshit, too. “It was insensitive and nconsiderate.” Yes, it was, but it was also an extremely offensive and slanderous accusation unsupported by objective evidence. It’s not a real apology if you don’t take back what you said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=90) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014.md?page=92)