Conrad Black might be a remorseless, arrogant criminal and a scumbag, but at least he didn’t gut an entire province’s budget in favour of eliminating a problem that technically wasn’t really a problem. 
The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.)
Mmmmmm… Socialism.
No, he just gutted shareholder equity.
That may be true, but he paid his debt to society by spending the better part of three years in the joint along with $6.1 million in fines (the fines are still pending to my knowledge).
I like my Socialism with a root beer and a side of fries. I was away at Storm Mountain for my 6th wedding anniversary and missed attending the Remebrance Day ceremonies. Two things:
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Thank you Piper for making me cry like a baby at work.
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Calgary drivers suck at driving in winter conditions. Now to be fair, the roads and visibility were shite on Friday and I haven’t in fact seen every driver in Calgary, but Edmonton got socked too and even though I complain about them, Calgary can once again proudly proclaim their superiority over Edmon-chuck in this regard. One example was the winner that was pulsing thier brakes every five seconds, literally, on clear roads with no traffic beside or in front of them on Stony Trail. If you are that nervous about road conditions, wait out the storm…
Trudeau got one. So, no Klein can’t be the least deserving member.
Get a room already, sheesh! 
Not going to argue with you. Between the chicken drivers who drive 20 kph below the speed limit on clear roads and the people who think that four-wheel-drive is a “get out of winter free” card, I just want to hibernate until spring.
Heh heh.
Trudeau and Klein had one thing very much in common: both were outstanding politicians and got things done thier way as a result. I’d argue both did massive amounts of irrepairable damage as a result, but they knew how to work the system to their advantage.
Not to worry, there is pending legislation which will mandate that the government is obliged to provide them one, at no charge. :o
Anyone know what the going rate for a divorce lawyer in Ontario might be? Of course I’m looking for ballpark figures since it obviously varies.
I have no reference benchmark; it could be $50 an hour or $500 an hour. I have no idea.
Thanks.
Depends where you live and how experienced the lawyer is. Less in the boonies, more in the cities. Expect a few hundred per hour, give or take, and a few grand for a retainer deposit, again give or take.
Call around to half a dozen or so lawyers before committing.
Do not go with one who has less than a decade of experience. It’s better to pay more per hour and get the job done efficiently than to pay less per hour and flounder extra hours away or suffer a poor result.
Do not go with any with whom you cannot have a comfortable conversation. Open communication with your lawyer is a necessity.
Closely question your potential lawyers on how they will handle your pension (be sure to tell them who you work for – it is very significant in your case).
Thanks Muffin. What’s a retainer deposit? Yes, it sounds like a deposit for retaining services, but why? Why would I need to do that?
Pardon my complete and utter ignorance in these matters.
A retainer deposit is money that you hand to the lawyer to hold on your behalf. As the lawyer does work, the lawyer will get paid out of the retainer deposit. The reason for this is to ensure that the lawyer gets paid for the work done, rather than doing the work only to have the client skip out on paying or being unable to pay due to being bankrupted by the other side.
The amount of the retainer deposit is based on how much work the lawyer expects to have to do in the next little while. At the start of a case, a few grand will usually cover getting things up and running (a day or so of the lawyer’s time), and meanwhile the client will have time to replenish it as it gets used up. Should the matter end up in court, the amount of the retainer may be raised. A retainer to get things moving toward a settlement is the price of a ski trip. If it ends up being fought in court, the retainer may be raised to the price of a car. If it ends up going to a full trial, the retainer may be raised to the price of a house.
What it comes down to is it will cost whatever it will cost, so the retainer deposit ensures that the client is aware of the price tag when making decisions concerning the case (legal aid funded clients are notorious for fighting to the ends of the earth, whereas most folks funding their own matters usually never see the inside of a courtroom), and ensures that if there is a shortage of funds, the lawyer will get paid and drop the client, rather than work for free.
How come other professions don’t demand up-front payment for services not yet rendered? What’s the difference here? Again, I have no experience in this field and am in no way being antagonistic towards lawyers; I’m thrust into a situation in which, I have no experience.
Lampleigh v Braithwait [1615] EWHC KB J 17, (1615) Hobart 105, 80 ER 255, as my Contract Law professor used to joke.
Seriously though, when it comes to legal services, there are no guarantees. A plumber or a mechanic fixes things so they work again. You get something, and are expected to pay for it when an invoice is rendered. That is not to say that you don’t get something out of a lawyer’s services, but that “something” may be different from what you expect: in spite of the lawyer’s work, you may lose the case, for example, or settle for an amount that is different from what you think it should be. In such instances, people are understandably reluctant to pay later for services rendered.
Thus, the retainer system. You deposit funds with the lawyer, who is paid from the retainer as work is done. In the end, you get an itemized invoice showing a zero balance owing, and possibly a cheque refunding any unused retainer funds; and the lawyer gets paid for the work he or she has put into the file, regardless of the outcome.
Thanks Spoons and Muffin. Do we need a lawyer? What if we negotiate this ourselves?
We’re both still in the same household and acknowledge our separation. I’m completely willing to split everything 50/50 and move on, and it sounds like she is too. Child support payments are pretty much mandated and non-negotiable, no?
Doctors are paid by the government – low risk. Dentists are most often paid by insurance companies – low risk. Builders are somewhat protected by statutory holdbacks by mortgage companies, interim payment schedules and liens against the fruits of their labour – some risk. Engineers usually deal with businesses that have significant assets and have interim payment schedules – some risk. Accountants usually deal with either businesses that have significant assets or with matters that are not very costly – some risk.
Family lawyers usually deal with regular folks who are in a crisis that very often arose out of financial problems, addiction problems, or mental health problems, who are suddenly trying to maintain two households on the same incomes that they had previously only been maintaining one household, who will do almost anything at any cost (including dine and dash with respect to their legal bills) to secure what is most precious to them, and who will have 50/50 odds at losing at trial and thereby neither wanting nor being able to pay their lawyer. That puts the family lawyer at high risk of not being paid unless the account is kept paid up thoughout the case.
Very few matters ever go to court, so whether relatively small amounts are paid before the work is done or after the work is done is neither here nor there. The problem arises when matters do go to court, for once in court, the work required increases dramatically. High conflict family matters (the ones that end up in court) are only there because one side or the other or both are unbalanced if not bat shit crazy. Once embroiled in litigation, matters usually only resolve short of a full trial when both sides cool down, when one side or the other or both have breakdowns, or when one side or the other or both go broke. Any lawyer who goes into a family law trial without money up front is at high risk of not getting paid, for pissed off, mentally unstable, financially challenged people are not the sorts who tend to their bills. Thus the need for money up front in amounts sufficient to cover the work anticipated in the next little while in the matter.
By requiring a retainer, the client is kept somewhat grounded as to what is realistic and what is not realistic. If, for example, the lawyer says “You may win, but it is more likely that you will lose, and it will cost you your savings to try the matter,” a distraught parent may very well decide to gamble and fight matter, whereas if a lawyer says “You may win, but it is more likely that you will lose, so if you wish to fight, you will first have to hand over your life savings,” a distraught parent will make a more considered decision. The retainer deposit means that the risk of the litigation cost is borne by the client, not by the lawyer, so hopefully the client will not go running into hell’s courtroom without first profoundly understanding the costs.
Previously, I mentioned the cost of a car (gong to court but settling well prior to a trial) and the cost of a house (litigation culminating in a full trial). Would a car dealership hand over the keys without being paid by the purchaser or the finance company? No. Would the homeowner hand over the keys without being paid by the purchased or the mortgage company? No. Same goes for Ontario family lawyers.
Yes in Ontario child support is now based on a formula and not really negotiable. I would hire a lawyer even if its just one to review the paperwork and ensure that what you’re filing isn’t going to have a different outcome than you expect. You should be able to share one for that.
Excellent Thank you.