I believe he does not live in Canada.
The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.)
You might want to consider for a moment, then, the fact that there is probably no regular poster on the Straight Dope Message Board who is so openly, regularly and predictably angry with, and derogatory of, the people of different regions of their own country than… you. You’re not doing a sensational job of giving anyone the impression that Quebecers don’t hate the rest of Canada.
This is a very frank observation, and I’m sorry if it makes you upset and assure you I am not trying to insult you, but it’s a remarkably strong impression.
This we can certainly agree upon. But what else would one expect from an guy who spent most of his adult life living in other countries and who, as a privileged, upper-class private school kid, has barely ever even associated with rank and file Canadians? He knows the country’s history and yet doesn’t understand anything about it.
Don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’m sure there are useful jobs in the government. Just as I’m equally sure that if it was a private company it would be about 1/4 the size it is now or less.
I live in HK now. I lived in Canada since I was born up until last year. In a couple of years you can ignore me when I talk of culture in Canada and other related things like we all should have done with Ignatieff.
In the small Saskatchewan town where I went to school, French was offered as a correspondence course only (the language class offered in school was German, since most of the town were from German-speaking extraction). Canada is officially a bilingual country, but nowhere near a functionally bilingual one.
No, taxation is a matter of both federal and provincial jurisdiction. The feds have an unlimited taxing power. The provinces are limited to direct taxes (e.g. income tax, sales tax), and only within the province.
I’m not following why you think the feds have taken over the natural resources - the provinces own them, the provinces set the royalty rates, the provinces determine how the resources will be developed.
Different places, different requirements. I took French every year from grade 5 to grade 13 (I was one of those who went through Ontario’s grade 13). The only other language classes we were offered were in high school; and then, were only German and Latin.
I’ll add that our French teachers at school were versed in the language of France, not Quebec. At least three of my French teachers had studied at the Sorbonne–excellent qualifications certainly, but not in the French language spoken daily in Quebec. Consequently, I had no problem travelling through France and speaking French while in my early 20s, but I have encountered difficulties speaking French in Quebec. No real problems ultimately; the Quebecers with whom I have interacted have either been very patient with my accent and vocabulary, or have switched to English. Regardless, the fact is that the French-language education in Toronto in the 60s and 70s was not in a language we could easily use in Quebec. More’s the pity really, as I have spent more time in Quebec than I ever did in France.
FWIW, a Franco-Ontarian friend of mine delights in calling me on my efforts to speak with him in his native language. I try, and get corrected, and we laugh, and he is very patient. Perhaps strangely, it’s kind of fun.
Constitution, section 92A of course.
Northern Piper, perhaps you can help. I was in a discussion with a friend locally who absolutely hates Stephen Harper and the Tories. He is convinced that Harper will suspend the Constitution, will stack the Supreme Court with judges that toe the Conservative party line (turning our constitutional jurisprudence upside-down in the process), and will ultimately turn Canada into some sort of right-wing dictatorship where Charter rights mean nothing; and all this will happen because “Harper has a majority.” I know, as do you, that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that Parliament (via a statute, for example) cannot overrule the rights granted by the Charter; and that by the Constitution and Charter, none of his fears will come true; but none of the explanations I could give him would convince him.
I don’t expect that any subsequent explanations I can offer will reassure him–he hates the Tories that much. But could you explain, in a way that I can carry into a personal debate, just why the Prime Minister and his government don’t have as much power as my friend attributes to them?
You know how some english Canadians have an inferiority complex when it comes to Americans ? You know the type, he goes to the U.S. a friendly American strikes up a conversation with him, eventually nationality comes up and it turns into the Canadian going intellectually apeshit and trying to convince the American that this Canadian is worth something next to the giant. It’s the same thing with HJ, but the Quebec equivilant towards the rest of Canada. HJ thinks always thinks in an ethnocentric capacity as well, when dealing with these issues and will always treat you accordingly. My first little beef with him, he wanted to know what type of Quebecer I was, Anglo, Franco-traiter. He needed to put me in a box with a label before he knew how to deal with what I was saying.
I know eveything I’ve said above is going to be construed as Quebec bashing, as it always is when “criticizing” anything Quebec related. Whatever . I don’t want these people to go away mad, just go away if that is what they really want.
FYI **mnemosyne ** Yeah we know, these issues drive you crazy.
Yes, I will not be commenting on this. There’s no point, as I’m convinced that no one will change their minds and all it will do is get me angry and/or hurt.
Though I have to say, we don’t “just watch HNIC” in another language… Radio-Canada doesn’t have the rights to NHL hockey, it’s on RDS (sister station to TSN) and the programming is far superior, IMHO. They have actual former coaches and quality players commenting, as opposed to washed-up nobody failures like PJ fucking Stock and Mike Milbury (though Stock does whore himself out to Antichambre, where he embarrasses himself and everyone around him on a regular basis).
Language is the basis of culture, IMHO, and it’s ridiculous to say that a group that speaks a different language doesn’t have a different culture. They do, there’s not much doubt about it and it does everyone a disservice to deny it, though it makes people feel better because they can say “they aren’t so different!”. The issues are how they should be handled, and how various language groups and cultures should/can be integrated, not whether they are, in fact, different.
So…yeah…this is me not talking about this. :smack:
Can I tell another hockey-culture related story? One that doesn’t involve PJ Stock? Did I already mention this here? I don’t remember…
At a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert at the Bell Centre a few weeks ago, the band left the stage before coming back for the 3-or-4 song encore. The arena was dark, other than a few dim security lights and the crowd was cheering and screaming and wanting more music, and someone started a round of Olé, olé olé olé!!!. It filled the arena and was so loud and enthusiastic! It was one of the coolest moments for me, in all my concert-going years. I have no idea if RHCP made the connection to the Habs (someone must have explained it to them), but there was something awesome about the fact that fans at a RHCP concert used what is basically a Habs reference to cheer the band with. Gave me chills.
Oddly enough, I think the only women in this thread don’t have children, but whatever… happy belated Mother’s Day!
Well, I’m a guy, and I don’t have kids, but I do have a cat, so thanks!
When I was in Quebec for a conference last fall I got complimented on my “Parisian” French. Never been there - I took French immersion in Calgary growing up.
And I gots kids - thanks 
After working for 9 years in the middle east I can say with no doubt that what you call the cultural differences between the English and French are negligible comparatively. If you say they are a major issue then I’ll have to question why we bring anyone from another country to live in Canada because the cultural differences will overwhelm them and there would be no way for them to fit it. .. Yet they do, for the most part.
Look at what you’ve said here:
You are so Canadian. That smug sense of superiority that other Canadians have when they speak of the Americans, or essentially anyone else. It’s right there in that sentence when you’re talking about your culture and what it has to offer compared to the ROC. One sentence proves that you are no different than the rest of us even though you’d like to think you are. You can’t be happy with number two, you have to give yourself reasons to justify being number one even though it isn’t a race. But without it, you can’t justify taking away other people’s rights to protect your own perceived differences, minor though they are.
Gah, having worked and lived in cultures around the world, trying to discuss such things with people is like trying to explain green to a blind person.
Wait, what? Because differences are small, they shouldn’t be mentioned? People from all over the world come to Canada and…get this…experience culture shock. It’s nice and all to be all united-colours-of-benneton and we-are-all-one, but it really isn’t helpful in the context of cultural and political discussions.
As for the other bit…WTF? I like RDS’s hockey coverage more than the CBCs. I also prefer TSN to the CBC. Tell me how that’s Québec vs the ROC? I explicitly said that it was my humble opinion. Everything else you’ve written is motivations, rantings and insults created out of your own mind. Honestly, where the hell did that come from?
ETA: and I’ve lived and worked with cultures from around the world too, btw. So take that assumption and shove it back where you found it, because you don’t actually know me enough to make any judgements on how I perceive the rest of the world.
The thing is mnemosyne, if any of the rest of us English blokes were to come on here and rant needlessly about how much better the hockey programming is on TSN because RDS employed a bunch of washed up nobodies you’d be frothing at the mouth. That’s a personal opinion and you come across continually as having some sort of unfounded superiority complex by saying such banal things.
There are cultural differences between Quebec and the ROC, to be sure, but they are relatively minor in comparison. I used to visit the IBM plant in Bromont a few times a year for about a decade, and we all talked about hockey, golf, skiing, semiconductors! I ordered my lunch in French and did my best to fit in; we all got along swimmingly. I’ll bet most educated English Canadians feel about the same as I do; we’re more similar than different, and any uniqueness you’re trying to laud upon yourselves is unfounded. Get over it.
FFS it was a throwaway opinion based on an “HNIC in another language” comment… it doesn’t exist in French, hence my even mentioning anything else!
I dislike Stock and Milbury and took the opportunity to dig at them. It really, really did not have the weight of any deeply-held political, language or other beliefs beyond “I think RDS/TSN has a superior product.” I also dislike sushi, will you all take that personally and pretend it means I hate all of Asia or something?
Talk about jumping to conclusions… this is totally ridiculous. I would NOT be frothing at the mouth, in that situation, Leaffan…this has fuck all to do with language or culture. You’ve put all kinds of emotion and motivation into my words that AREN’T THERE. You’ve projected all kinds of crap onto my words that I did not say, have never said and likely will never say.
I put your words in the context you created them in. I said your culture was essentially the same as mine. You said it isn’t and then used an example of French commentators being more qualified, what do you expect my reaction to be?
The French commentators could be more qualified. I have no issue with that or you specifically saying that. What I take issue with is the context you’ve placed that statement in. Essentially saying that it is because they are French and your culture is different that you have more qualified commentators.
All sane people think Mike Milbury and PJ Stock are idiots. I mean, Jeebus.
Except that isn’t what happened at all.
You said the cultures were essentially the same. I said they are different, because of language, which is a strong component of culture. I said the differences are there. Whether or not they are big, and how the various language issues matter is up to debate, but they are there.
You included a comment referencing HNIC in another language. HNIC doesn’t exist in another language (at least not French, they still do Punjabi, right?). I then mentioned it was on RDS and then explicitly indicating that it was my humble opinion gave an opinion on the quality of the work.
It had nothing to do with “my culture” vs “your culture” (hint: I’m freaking bilingual), but rather my opinion of RDSwhich is, factually, where the hockey is.
Everything else came out of your imagination.
I said nothing about because they are French. Seriously, re-read what I said. I did not say that they are more qualified because they are French.
I said because they are better because they are former coaches and quality players. The fact that they are French is incidental. They are Stanley-Cup-winning people, top-line guys, former team captains and leaders, etc who give commentary beyond ‘hurrr…hitting good’ like Stock and Milbury do. Stock actually shows up on RDS, I don’t like him in French either. I also don’t like Benoit Brunet, Alain Chantelois and even Mario Tremblay is a bit of an arrogant bore.
So, once again, my explicitly stated OPINION on RDS, which is where the hockey is, that it is better than HNIC.
I am telling you now, as I have already said, that it has nothing to do with language or culture, it has to do with the people doing the work and it is merely my opinion.
Anything relating to “more qualified than [your] culture”, or “English vs French” or “Quebec vs Canada” or "us vs them"is entirely the product of your own imagination.
Can I make that clearer? You are implying that I said things that I did not say. I am saying I did not, will not say them.
Seriously, I don’t even know why the hell this conversation is happening any more.
I find that it helps to speak french REALLY (almost comically) nasal to replicate an ad roc Quebecois accent (If you’re in Chicoutimi try to be a little squeaky too), but it won’t help your lack of vocabulary (and you’ll still need to throw in the extra “tu”). However I find replicating the accent isnt too important. They’ll understand you if you speak clearly enough, understanding them though…that might be difficult.
Chiac on the other hand is basically Franglais. If you know English you’re halfway to speaking Acadian.
…Also, listen to more Radio Radio; ils sont super.